Miscellaneous And Off Topic Subjects

[Wild Hoss]

Just as an aside....I spent a few days in Glenwood Springs, CO with the family this week. Hadn’t been there for five years, and its gotten noticeably more “ethnic” since our last visit. Lots of Hispanic families visiting the attractions, lots of young Hispanics working at them. My kids played together with Hispanic children at the water park in our hotel, and my wife and chatted with their parents in the meantime. Not one of them tried to mug me, kill me, or sell me drugs. I suspect such an experience would be quite eye-opening for Mr Trump.

Also....shitloads of Mennonites. If you haven’t heard Plautdietsch spoken aloud with words like “Dude”, "wicked" and “boss” interjected, you’re missing out.

Finally, I'll add a plug for Glenwood Springs, if anybody has younger kids or grandkids whom you might take to Colorado. Beautiful little town, about 3 hours west of Denver. Has a small amusement park on top of a mountain with some great rides, and caverns. Rafting, ziplining. and hiking are also available. The drive in on I70 through Glenwood Canyon is spectacular....the area looks just some of the background from Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid, for reference. A mix between SW and Alpine.

[hack]

DO THEY VALUE FREEDOM AND DEMOCRACY.

[hack]

Haven't been up around there in a while. My mom lives in Colorado Springs, so we've been chasing up kiddie stuff on the southern side of the state, mostly. Great Sand Dunes National Park is friggin amazing. Just enough sand dune there to rob you of any perspective of anything else on the horizon. Might as well be in the middle of the Sahara. Some friggin fantastic food down there too, although they are the kind of recepies that may not value freedom and democracy.

[Wild Hoss]

We?ve driven Hwys 24 and 82 between Colorado Springs and Glenwood Springs a couple times, and if there?s a more awe-inspiring drive anywhere in this country I?d have to see it to believe it. High passes, basins, mountain streams, cliffs...so gorgeous that it even pulled the kids? attention away from their phones for hours at a time. IOW, nearly miraculous in its beauty.

[froot loops]

Any politician that wants to impose his religion on me scares the shit out of me. Living in a state that is ruled by the church has shown me that it is not a good thing.

As the leader of the Christian Taliban, Cruz is a scary motherfucker. I hope he disappears along with the rest of the Tea Party and other religious zealots. Their vision of America is not the America that I know or want.

Trump on the other hand is just a gas-bag fool. I suspect that he will get destroyed in the election.

I don't disagree with that, I would say that with Trump he may be a gas bag fool who blunders into something catastrophic. When you are voting for a president you are voting for an administation. I think you are looking at at the very least Christie, Gingrinch, Guliani and Omarosa as cabinet membees.

[hack]

24 is spectacular, yeah. Just wonderful. I haven't done 82 in years and years. Not since I was in college and skiied Aspen. Stop by the Woody Creek Tavern but Hunter S Thompson wasn't there. Bummer.

[Wild Hoss]

I don't disagree with that, I would say that with Trump he may be a gas bag fool who blunders into something catastrophic. When you are voting for a president you are voting for an administation. I think you are looking at at the very least Christie, Gingrinch, Guliani and Omarosa as cabinet membees.

Additionally...I am fairly certain that, if he wins, Trump will not finish out a term. Once the glory fades into work he'll resign, leaving us a Pence Administration and a resulting clown-car of a cabinet that will make us pine for the likes of Christie and Newt.

[entropy]

So... When Hillary wins do we end up with Jeb in 8 yrs?


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[Wild Hoss]

So... When Hillary wins do we end up with Jeb in 8 yrs?


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Laura.

[Wild Hoss]

24 is spectacular, yeah. Just wonderful. I haven't done 82 in years and years. Not since I was in college and skiied Aspen. Stop by the Woody Creek Tavern but Hunter S Thompson wasn't there. Bummer.

I happened upon a convo between ski bums in Breckenridge that was straight out of Bill and Ted. It was so stereotypical that I wondered for a bit if they weren't putting on a show for the tourists.

That part of the world is endlessly entertaining, even beyond the scenery. LOL

[hack]

Rad. Sounds like it was a bluebird day and you were totally dialled in, dude!

[Jeff Buchanan]

.......For my whole adult life, reasonable discourse about race, religion, etc has been shut down by the Left. This had to be broken. I like the expression that Talent used earlier -- "recalibrating the center".

The liberal left sees the world through a different prism than the conservative right but I don't agree with you that reasonable discourse has been shut down which, I believe in your view, implies conservative views have been sublimated to those of the left when it comes to policy making.

Capitalism, embraced by conservatives, as an economic model can have rough edges when it comes to wealth equality which, when present, gives rise to social equality. Income distribution schemes reflected in Reaganomics, his Federal Tax policy, Trickle Down Economics are a cornerstone of conservatism. That the wealth gap has expanded over the time period you have mentioned is a better indicator of the failure of these policies that were opposed by the left but nevertheless implemented legislatively through, we can only assume, reasonable political discourse and compromise. I would say the right has prevailed in this regard and, in my view, at the expense of creating a large and angry underclass.

In the presence of significant institutional racism that exists today along with fragile and poorly enforced US immigration policy, I find it more likely that the conservative right has shut down reasonable political discourse on race and immigration than the left and I have sat, almost my entire life, on the conservative right side of the isle. Moreover, I see Donald Trump, by virtue of his remarks in this Presidential election season, a highly polarizing figure when it comes to reasonable discourse on race and immigration issues.

That is why Trump's brash, obnoxious personality is a positive, rather than a negative, to many people including myself.

It's a negative to me and neither of us is likely to convince the other of a different view of Donald Trump's brash and obnoxious personality. On the national scene respectability politics and compromise have gotten more accomplished legislatively than what predominates today where little of substance gets accomplished. I see Trump's personality likely to make the squabbles between Obama and John Boehner look like child's play.

I am sick and tired of America being the world's feeding trough and I'm sick and tired of America being the world's policeman without recompense. Right now there is what economists call a massive "free rider" problem. Trump recognized it three decades ago. The only dividend that we have gotten from this is hate and scorn. I want somebody with fighting instinct to be President. I want America to be a selfish country (like everyone else). Even Reagan was somewhat naive in this area. An "America first" policy is long overdue.

Following WWII, the Allies inherited the role you speak of. I don't see it as a negative one nor do I share your view that the only dividend the US has gotten from this is hate and scorn. From a defeated Japan and Germany? From those counties hobbled by the Nazi war machine? From European nations whose boarders have been protected from Russian expansionism? I'd urge you to travel abroad and while governments can often appear to be prickly when they feel their national interests are interfered with by America, their citizens, by-in-large, have tremendous respect for us and our role in the world as Democracy's leader.

I don't see America's role as Democracy's leader changing any time soon. I also consider it vital that the US have a capable military force to defend that role when it is challenged any place around the world. To do that effectively requires a naval presence and that requires alliances that offer ports for US Naval vessels. The same is true for Armies and alliances that afford basing rights in countries where it is in our strategic interests to do so. I find Trumps naivete in these matters laughable as much as they are dangerous. While Hillary is definitely in a hawkish wing of the liberal left there is a reason for that and it is her experience in dealing with international alliances on a strategic level - she has both succeeded and failed in that regard but nevertheless there is knowledge there far exceeding anything Donald rump will ever gain. And believe me, there is still a need and a place for Gun Boat Diplomacy and I trust Clinton to use that sort of thing much more responsibly than Trump would as President.

For a variety of reasons. The authoritarian instincts in this country today reside on the Left and it shows up in a variety of ways:......

All I can say in response to your view and the list you offer to substantiate it is that I can't agree that any of it indicates the authoritarian instincts reside on the Left. The things you mention may indicate that the Left's political, economic and social views have broader appeal worldwide than those of the conservative Right but no one, IMO, is shouting down, in an authoritarian manner, conservative themes nor are they indicative of some dictatorial undertakings by the current US president. The things you mention appear to me to be indicators of rejection of traditionally conservative policies and ideas that have, more or less, failed or been found to be flawed.

.......you should be falling over yourself to vote for Trump, because the demographics are shifting in favor of people who don't value these concepts (Freedom and Democracy). That was ultimately the tipping point for me. We're one illegal immigrant amnesty bill away from permanent one party rule.

Attend a Ceremony where persons of other nationalities and colors are becoming US Citizens and I think you might take a different view of them. I can see the dangers of uncontrolled immigration in a time when there is lax enforcement of existing immigration laws and large numbers of people fleeing poverty, war, and ethnic cleansing. But I believe those dangers are overstated by many on the Right and what would you have America do to these people who seek nothing more than security and work to sustain a meager existence? A wall is not the answer nor is it a foregone conclusion, as you imply, that without one, conservativism and all that entails will be lost in a wave of liberalism. You and I will probably see, I suppose, the re-calibration of the center moving in a different direction.

[UMStan White]

Wow. The two posts all should read. Hanni makes a compelling argument for Trump (and this comes from the person farthest on the left than anyone who posts here) and Jeff's rebuttal coming from another person on the right. These posts are evidence that those of differing views can engage in civil discourse. My hat's off to the two of you. Much to digest. This election cycle is very much about the "recalibration of thE center" (What a great observation Talent)

[hack]

Kudos to the both of them, yes. Maybe lets let these stand out for a bit, but later you can tell me how you're to the left of me, Stan. I didn't think anyone here was. Guess I will have to up my game.

[AlabamAlum]

Yes, it's been a nice exchange and I hate both the PAH and Herr Trump.