Miscellaneous And Off Topic Subjects

[Dr. Strangelove]

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[foxhopper]

Beem drinking my beloveded Hamms beer since 3:;30 this afternoon.I try my best to be open minded but still think dsl' fruit cake and especially cgvt are bat shit crazy. My life was so much better when Trump was in office.

Just the worthless opinion of a regular guy. ISometimes I think you guys are fucking trolls. I just don't get how any of you think things are heading in the right direction.

[THE_WIZARD_]

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[Dr. Strangelove]

[foxhopper]

My apologies. I had way to many last night.

[Jeff Buchanan]

AA, a couple pages up thread you posted that the border problem would be solved if the US spent the money on border issues instead of on supporting Ukraine (paraphrased but the point should be clear).

The choice to spend from the US treasury isn't binary as your post suggests it is. That's because national and strategic interests are interrelated through overlapping core principals. National interests reflect the identity of a people--their geography, culture, political sympathies, social consensus, as well as their levels of economic prosperity and demographic makeup. Defending the national interest demands the willingness of a state to uphold its morals and values with the commitment of its treasure to assure that end at home and abroad when these are challenged.

I'd argue that opposing Russian revanchist expansionism, a threat to the world order and America's core national and strategic values established after WWII, supersedes that of border security (IMO). There are other isolationist thinkers that would reverse the order of these. I don't subscribe to the notion of Trumpian isolationism.

Certainly, border security is right up there on my list of national security issues at home. However, I think the current polity fails to understand how vital securing the current world order is in perpetuating America's core values at home and abroad by facing an obvious challenge to it by Putin's Russia in Ukraine. I'd concede that a balance in government spending in support of these two issues is appropriate but not binary.

Unfortunately, both of these issues have no identifiable endgame. US treasury spending is less of an issue than defining goals for what has been authorized already "As long as it takes" doesn't work for US involvement in Ukraine and sets the US up for an open-ended pledge of support to the Zelenski government. Identify one. The Biden administration maintaining a purposefully ambiguous and apparently disinterested immigration and southern border control policy is equally inappropriate. Enforce existing immigration law, make new ones where appropriate.

[Jeff Buchanan]

Ukraine update:

Western heads of state are having a hard time keeping a straight face any time an official Russian position on Putin's Special Operation in Ukraine is articulated by Kremlin spokespersons. The problem is that in the face of the senseless killing of Ukrainian civilians and property destruction by Russia, it's not humorous. Sadly, this is not likely to stop anytime soon.

Wagner PMC head Yevgeny Prigozhin is threatening he will withdraw his fighters from Bakhmut noting that "everything will collapse" if he does this as he has said he will on May 10th. This is a continuation of his public statements criticizing the Russian MoD for failing to supply adequate arms and ammunition to his force that is fighting an enormously costly battle in Bakhmut. It's getting harder and harder for Putin's propaganda apparatus to keep making his fabrications believable.

Analysts are assessing that Putin, based on the implications of Prigozhin's video, has probably ordered the consolidation of positions and assumption of defensive posture by Russian ground forces across all fronts. This is likely in preparation to defend occupied Ukrainian territory against a Ukrainian counter offensive operation.

Head of the Ukrainian AF publicly announced that a Patriot Battery had shot down one of Russia's hypersonic cruise missiles over Kiev. The Zelenski government has been calling for more resources to defend the airspace over Ukraine from cruise missile attacks being launched from sea and land based platforms well outside of Ukrainian territory that can carry and launch these. Looks like they got some and it's operational.

Sabotage and assassinations of Russian figures both inside Russia and Ukrainian territory occupied by Russia have increased in the last two weeks. This appears to have prompted the Kremlin to cancel several local traditional May 9th celebrations that commemorate Russia's victory over Nazi Germany in 1944. The parade will happen in Moscow but at a reduced footprint. It also does not look like the Russian Army has been able to control the entirety of the Donbas let alone the strategically insignificant, now completely destroyed, city of Bakhmut. IOW, not much for Vladamir to celebrate. Count on it that he'll try to recast his special operation as a success.

[AlabamAlum]

Well, Jeff, I would completely disagree.

To be sure, I am not against supporting Ukraine. And certainly we have (going back a decade and jumping exponentially since the invasion to the tune of HUNDREDS of BILLIONS of dollars), but the US set a record with nearly 3,000,000 people illegally entering the US in 2022 (a new record) looking to join the nearly 12 million illegals already here, and now, with Title 42 ending, we have 700,000 that will look to cross the border this month alone (another record).

I 100% believe that the border issue is a MUCH more pressing issue to America than Russia attempting to re-take former Soviet-bloc geography. I don’t even think it’s close.

[klondike]

You're never going to fix all the world problems. In fact barely put a dent in it. They'll never be an end to world tyrants as well. All you can do is try to fix your own home. And allowing unchecked boarders en masse is a disaster. 300 billion to a support a stalemate and 0 to secure our borders. Hmmmm. Which one is out of balance there.

[AlabamAlum]

But help Ukraine. A check to Russia is not a bad thing. Zelenskyy isn’t a George Washington and Ukraine isn’t perfect, but Russia is definitely trying to bring central and eastern Europe back into the Russian fold. It’s a stab at a return to Cold War hegemony that they used to enjoy in that area.

But we’re gonna self devour with the southern border left unattended well before Putin becomes an imminent threat to the United States, and unlike the Worm Ouroboros, there is a finite conclusion to the border issue. There is no infinity loop with vital resources.

[Hannibal]

Geezer, no. Hannibal, yes.

Is that your final answer?

[Dr. Strangelove]

But help Ukraine. A check to Russia is not a bad thing. Zelenskyy isn’t a George Washington and Ukraine isn’t perfect, but Russia is definitely trying to bring central and eastern Europe back into the Russian fold. It’s a stab at a return to Cold War hegemony that they used to enjoy in that area.

But we’re gonna self devour with the southern border left unattended well before Putin becomes an imminent threat to the United States, and unlike the Worm Ouroboros, there is a finite conclusion to the border issue. There is no infinity loop with vital resources.

Probably start winding down support and pushing for a deal after this upcoming counter offensive that’s expected to begin soon, as in this month.

[THE_WIZARD_]

STFU

[Jeff Buchanan]

AA your response is solid. We're just going to disagree on the order of importance of checking Russian imperial intentions and a change in the present world order compared to border and immigration issues that I agree are significant.

Probably start winding down support and pushing for a deal after this upcoming counter offensive that’s expected to begin soon, as in this month.

No.

Not supporting the Zelenski government's objective of facilitating the conditions on the ground where Putin is forced to withdraw, at the very least, from the Donetsk and Luhansk Oblasts (The Donbas) is a win for Putin. It is also a win for his clearly incremental long game for bringing previous Soviet satellite states into the Russian orbit and a win for the advancement of a new world order and hegemones who will govern in ways anathmatic to America' s and the west's, in general, liberal democratic principals of governance.

Negotiating now with a Russian leader who obstinately insists Ukraine doesn't exist and is historically a part of Russia and who has no intention of abandoning any of his revanchinist goals is a waste of time and will be interpreted by many nations as waving the white flag. Worse, it gives Russia time to rearm and replace human and personal resources expended since the invasion started. IOW, he'll prepare for another invasion using the Donbas and Crimea as pushing off points - which has been his plan all along - this time from inside the legal borders of Ukraine. Little by little an authoritarian tyrant, a fascist, will force the west's hand. It's a pay me some now or pay me a lot later. The last thing the west should do now is cave.

[Hannibal]

At this point, I'm convinced that itt will take an economic collapse for people to realize that we can't be Team Amertica: World Police anymore. Cost/benefit calculations don't even enter into the conversation now.