Miscellaneous And Off Topic Subjects

[The Oracle]

Turkey is us?

[Dr. Strangelove]

Sounds like the coup was led by only the middle ranks of the military, with many of the soldiers being duped into believing this was an 'exercise". All the opposition parties denounced the coup and I hope Erdogan recognizes that in the coming days.

[Dr. Strangelove]

Images of Turkey's Parliament building after jets bombed it

[Wild Hoss]

Sounds like the coup was led by only the middle ranks of the military, with many of the soldiers being duped into believing this was an 'exercise". All the opposition parties denounced the coup and I hope Erdogan recognizes that in the coming days.

Even Turkish Millenials are fuckups.

Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk

[Jeff Buchanan]

Yeah, this attempted military coup in Turkey was pretty interesting. For those that haven't followed Turkey's history here are the Cliff notes:

The Ottoman Empire, a Monarchy/Caliphate with a Caliph at its head and allied with the Central Powers in WWI, collapsed at the conclusion of that conflict. Ataturk, at the time of WWI was a soldier in the Ottoman Empire's army.

Between 1918 and 1923 as the victors of WWI divided up the spoils of war, Ataturk led a national movement to establish a state separate from the remains of the Caliphate and the Monarchy that still controlled territory. Turks, Greeks, Armenians and Russians all had different agendas for the region but to simplify this confusing period, Ataturk succeeded in installing a Grand National Assembly (GNA) - a parliament - with himself as speaker. This established a diarchy with the Ottoman Grand Viser becoming more of a figurehead in the region he previously controlled. The GNA, with Ataturk at it's head was officially recognized as Turkey's government by the League of Nations in 1923.

Ataturk eliminates the remnants of the Ottoman empire and begins a historical path that separates Turkey's central government form religious affairs. This is the stage at which Ataturk's strictly secularist form of government is established and it is one that is completely divorced from the Islamic influence that was part of the Ottoman empire.

The next several decades saw the formation of a Republic, increased personal freedoms, economic development and regular challenges to his authority by Islamists and Kurds. None of these were successful and it is during this period that the military came to be understood as the protector of the secularism that Ataturk had established.

Ataturk dies in 1938 but by this time he had so strongly established the nation state as a republic defended by the Military, there were no Islamist challengers strong enough or holding sway over any portion of the Turkish population that could challenge his successors who held similar political and social beliefs about the secular state.

Turkey was a neutral country during most of WWII and entered the conflict on the side of the Allies early in 1945.

From the end of WWII through the 80s, the military had, on multiple occasions, intervened to protect Turkey's historical secularism. They were military "coups" but they were always bloodless - three of them. All three of them installed secular governments with political leadership friendly to the military. The read is that while the Turkish population saw the Military coups as taking on rampant corruption in Turkish politics, they never generally liked the aftermath and attendant running roughshod over the populace military style.

Skip ahead: Erdogan appears on the political scene in the late 80s. He is associated with various Islamic political groups and parties. He is elected Mayor of Istanbul in 1994 and residents there feared he would implement Islamic Law. Being the pragmatist he was, he didn't do this but the stamp of Islamist was permanently applied.

He was arrested and jailed in 1998 on charges of threatening the secularism of the state and upon his release after serving 4 months of a 10 month sentence was banned from politics. Here is where this very staunchly Islamist Abdullah Gul arrives on the scene. Having secured the effective elimination of Erdogan's AKP party, he is installed as Turkey's President. Within a few months of his Presidency, the Turkish Parliament writes laws banning alcohol consumption. Immensely unpopular there was real fear this was the beginning of a the return of Turkey to an Islamic state. That didn't last long and thorough political maneuvering, Erdogan reemerges and becomes PM in 2003 due to Gul's unpopularity and fears he was bringing Islamic Law back full force.

His role as both PM and President have been highly controversial due to fears that he too will bring Islam back to Turkish governance but he has always walked a fine line. Not particularly well accepted by the Turkish people, he has taken various steps to give himself and his office more powers and rewrite the Turkish constitution that has stood virtually unchanged since Ataturk implemented it in 1924.

The Kurds have been another thorn in his side and if you want to study the relationship between the Kurds and the Armenians who were, according to some historians, rounded up and slaughtered at the direction of Ataturk in the '20s as he came to power, it's complicated.

So, in Turkey, there is this constant friction going on between political groups and figures who favor a return to Islamic Law, the Kurds, represented politically in Turkey by the PKK and who are seeking an independent state and the military - ostensibly protectors of Secularism. It is interesting that Erdogan has purposefully installed military officers more favorably inclined to his Islamic political views since 2005. So, this idea of the military protecting secularism going forward may be an imagined one - something Erdogan has seen to.

The latest is Erdogan accusing a faction within the military, of which there are three factions sort of recognized: The old school staunchly secularist, the younger moderates, and within the upper echelons of the military, Islamists installed by Erdogan, being stirred up by this guy Gulen who lives in self imposed political exile in Pennsylvania. Once a political ally of Erdogan, he is no longer that and has opposed Erdogan on multiple levels mostly involving his authoritarianism and corruption. Gulen has denied any involvement and has made multiple statements urging calm and for soldiers involved to return to their barracks.

This thing for Erdogan is not settled. Despite declarations of he and his political allies being in charge, that is not entirely clear. His position is going to be challenged going forward amidst a complicated political back drop which fundamentally boils down to the question of whether Turkey will be an Islamic state governed by Islamic Law or whether it will remain a Republic separated from religious influences. We should expect a lot of uncertainty regarding Turkey. While IMO, and among others, a military coup, led by the moderate elements of the military, that would have installed a new anti-Islamist government woould have been a good thing, that is an oversimplification of the complex political realities in that country not the least of which involve questions over what kind of Islamic State - one like Morocco/Jordan or one like Iran - Turkey will become.

[Mike]

Thanks for the primer on Turkey, Jeff. Very informative. I'm worried that the pushback from Erdogan against the coup organizers will swing the state toward Islamism. We've already lost use of our airbases there.

In other news there is a big push to have Russia completely barred from the Rio Olympics. Their track and field team already is but the rest of their athletes may be staying home as well. A Russian official says he helped cover up dirty tests from Russian athletes when they hosted the winter games in Sochi and 15 of those athletes won medals.

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2016/07/17/sports/olympics/russia-doping-summer-games-rio.html?referer=

[Wild Hoss]

Russians lying and cheating? Hard to believe.

[Jeff Buchanan]

Thanks for the primer on Turkey, Jeff. Very informative. I'm worried that the pushback from Erdogan against the coup organizers will swing the state toward Islamism. We've already lost use of our airbases there.

On pushback ...... my sense is that there is still enough political and public resistance for Erdogan to successfully implement Islamic Law as a fundamental governing influence (ala., Iran and others). I'm not entirely sure he wants that either. His one time political ally, now an opponent, Abdullah Gul, DID want that and when he tried (implementing the ban on consumption of alcohol) large public protests against him ensued. Erdogan actually rose to power talking about the important role of secularism in turkey's governance. The secularist public that acutally greatly outnembers Islamists in Turkey doesn't really trust him though and are warry.

Airbases: Incirlik airbase in southern Turkey is still an active NATO base. NATO nation aircraft, including USAF and USMC aircraft, have operated out of this base for as long as I can remember. Primary targest are ISIS ones at present but there are tactical nukes there. It's a big deal. Operations were temporarily suspended by government authorities during the attempted military coup but restored shortly thereafter with the government stating that Turkey remains strongly allied with NATO. I read a bunch of Turkish officers and enlisted at the airbase were rounded up and arrested during the temporary shut down. Probably a little unnerving for US servicemen still there. Dependents and some service men were evacuated a few months ago leaving only essential troops there. My old Squadron of EA6Bs, VMAQ2, deployed there in April of this year.

[Mike]

Three police officers shot dead and several wounded in Baton Rouge ambush. Maybe we should villify police officers more??

https://news.google.com/news/ampviewer?caurl=http%3A%2F%2Fmobile.nytimes.com%2F2016%2F07%2F18%2Fus%2Fbaton-rouge-police-respond-to-reports-of-officer-shooting.amp.html#pt0-284327

[SeattleLionsFan]

Ugh. How horrible. Just stop killing people...

[Jeff Buchanan]

........ not that simple SLF. Why are police officers being targeted?

My view is that it is a matter of unjustified outrage by certain people of color. Not all of them. The one's that have been radicalized by incitement to action by activists pushing their violent agendas too hard.

This, the targeting of police, is entirely predictable. Combination of easy access to firearms, disillusioned, angry, sometimes mentally unstable people, irresponsible activism using language that incites others to violence, cops on routine patrols as easy targets.

Disgusting. If activists behind this think that what they tend to incite is a justified outcome, if they drive the police into further militarization and tactics, the black community will have a large portion of the US population of all races sick and tired of their tactics. Reasonable people will push back and will be more than willing to see authorities restrict the rights of those who believe they are already unjustifiably victimized by state violence.

This kind of thing is not at all productive for advancing the rights of people of color. It is going to do just the opposite. Civilized Americans of all stripes and colors will not stand for it.

[Cody_Russell]

Yea but gun control is the main issue here and the only one I'll mention...........

[Mike]

........ not that simple SLF. Why are police officers being targeted?

My view is that it is a matter of unjustified outrage by certain people of color. Not all of them. The one's that have been radicalized by incitement to action by activists pushing their violent agendas too hard.

This, the targeting of police, is entirely predictable. Combination of easy access to firearms, disillusioned, angry, sometimes mentally unstable people, irresponsible activism using language that incites others to violence, cops on routine patrols as easy targets.

Disgusting. If activists behind this think that what they tend to incite is a justified outcome, if they drive the police into further militarization and tactics, the black community will have a large portion of the US population of all races sick and tired of their tactics. Reasonable people will push back and will be more than willing to see authorities restrict the rights of those who believe they are already unjustifiably victimized by state violence.

This kind of thing is not at all productive for advancing the rights of people of color. It is going to do just the opposite. Civilized Americans of all stripes and colors will not stand for it.

Amen!

[SeattleLionsFan]

Who was using language that incited violence?

[Mike]

No justice, no peace??