Miscellaneous And Off Topic Subjects

[UMStan White]

Yeah Jon, a police officer ranting racist shit should be subject to demotion. He or she should also be subjected to a pyschiatric evaluation before going back on the street. People always want to talk about "1st amendment free speech". They never want to talk about the consequences one may face for that speech.

[Ghengis Jon]

Will the BLM take to the streets in support for these officers? (From ABC)


Police in Washington have arrested five people they say opened fire on police.

No injuries were reported early Tuesday. This latest incident follows protests over police killings of black men in Louisiana and Minnesota and the fatal shooting of five police officers in Dallas last week.

Police spokesman Dustin Sternbeck said by telephone that officers responded to gunshots in southeast Washington. When officers arrived in marked police cruisers, people inside an SUV began shooting at them. Sternbeck says police returned fire at the suspects, who barricaded themselves in the vehicle. Police ordered the people to come out, but they refused. After about 30 minutes, three women and two men in the SUV surrendered.

[Jeff Buchanan]

The demotion is appropriate. Having the right to speak freely has a concomitant restraint to do it responsibly.

Leshia Evans ..... surprised this hasn't been commented on. She's the woman that approached a police blockade in Baton Rouge, peacefully stood before it with the purpose of getting arrested and when she was after failing to disperse when she was ordered to do so, captured the imagination of the press to pronounce her courage comparable to that of the young man who stood before a Chinese tank in Tiananmen Square.

The important point that does seem to be emerging over the last few days is, correctly, the need for civil law enforcement where weakening or abandoning it encourages criminal acts, unlawful behavior and produces civil unrest and can ultimately lead to anarchy.

In the case of Leshia Evans, the facts as I understand them, tell us that demonstrators where authorized to assemble, speak freely to those assembled but not disrupt traffic or enter private property. It took me some digging to find this but here's the ACLU's position on protests:

?The general rule is that the owners of private property may set rules limiting free speech. If those rules are disobeyed, protesters can be ordered off their property.? What clearly works against the Baton Rouge BLM protesters claiming police brutality is the timeline of events. The problems for BLM protesters began as they tried to march onto the interstate. After an hour stand-off with the police, the police began to arrest the protesters who were disrupting traffic. The protesters retreated and scattered throughout the neighborhood. Some of the protesters attempted to seek refuge on private property in order to avoid arrest because of the ?unlawful assembly.? The ACLU states clearly the legal limitations for protests, which include ?demonstrators who engage in civil disobedience- peaceful, but unlawful, activities as a form of protest- are not protected under the First Amendment and can be arrested.?

So, Leshia Evans actions were unlawful and she was arrested for carrying them out. She is no hero. She is a law breaker and was held accountable for breaking the law. Instead of castigating the Baton Rouge Police, something that is being done WAY too often in the context of the BLM movement, the news media, and I'd add local governments, need to be delivering the facts.

[hack]

She said herself that she knew she was doing something illegal. I think you're missing the point of what protesting is all about.

[hack]

When authorities, parents or, in this case, the courts, abandon their responsibility to hold those in their charge accountable and demonstrate there are consequences for bad or criminal conduct by imposing meaningful punishments, they FAIL. It sickens me. It also goes a long way in explaining a good deal of the outrageously bad behavior and unlawful conduct of people in our country.


Your Hugh Freeze comments, Jeff. I think the challenge in this country is applying that equally to all types and groups.

[entropy]

We ask less and less of people. Being an adult is unpopular.

[Jeff Buchanan]

She said herself that she knew she was doing something illegal. I think you're missing the point of what protesting is all about.

No, I get "protesting." I get civil disobedience ....... remember, I am a child of the 60s and attended "Cal Berkely East" from 66-70. However, Abby Hoffman was not an acquaintance of mine and while Stan, at M about the same time I was, grew his hair long and was probably on the fringes of the Weathermen's activities, I was getting spat on by these guys walking across campus in my Navy ROTC Uniform.

....... anyway, my point in the post above was that if persons want to disobey authority in an act of civil disobedience and get arrested for doing it, that's fine but don't castigate the cops for performing their duty of upholding the law and in the process martyr the law breakers.

I don't think what is happening with policing in the US is akin to anything approaching the repression of free speech and outright flaunting of human rights by, most notably the Communist Chinese, among other governments. That this protester's actions are being equated to the protester who stood before Chinese tanks in Tiananmen Square is not only laughable but a dangerous condemnation of the police who acted in accordance with their orders and duties in enforcing the law.

[entropy]

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/basketball/ct-minneapolis-cops-lynx-wnba-game-20160712-story.html

off duty cops walk working women's NBA game walk out..

[hack]

Of course it's not comparable to Tiananmen Square. But, at the same time, it's important to remember that our system is supposed to be so wildly different than theirs that it's alarming that something even roughly approximate could happen.


I don't think what is happening with policing in the US is akin to anything approaching the repression of free speech and outright flaunting of human rights


Sadly, I don't think that's true. Which is why we're in the position we're in. The difference is that orders for mass repressing and killings aren't coming from on high, but people's basic rights are being violated nonetheless. I don't know how you could say otherwise when unarmed people are shot dead or choked to death. Certainly there's an argument about isolated incidents versus a systematic and regular approach, but that's no comfort to the families of people like the Bronx cigarette seller, etc.

[hack]

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports...712-story.html

off duty cops walk working women's NBA game walk out..

Union bullshit. I tend to think that unions are a necessary evil, but there's no denying that many people in a union develop a ridiculous sense of self entitlement. Just do your fucking job.

[THE_WIZARD_]

[Wild Hoss]

IMO modern communications have seriously damaged the protest/demonstration as a means of public expression. That goes against popular sentiment and “Power to the people!” thinking, but where it was once difficult to arrange large protests, that difficultly also served as a filter...by and large, only the true believers got the word.

Today, everybody even remotely connected is alerted, or finds out about it as soon as the rally/march begins. Then the malcontents descend en masse, looking for opportunities to unleash chaos. Protests quickly turn into self-defeating mobs.

Also...as a result, I think that BLM, and the black community in general, needs to move beyond the protesting model that’s been deeply ingrained since the 1960s. There are appropriate forums for airing grievances, such as city council meetings, where minorities will get a fair and public hearing. Its really not necessary to march around with cardboard signs out in the heat anymore.

[hack]

IMO modern communications have seriously damaged the protest/demonstration as a means of public expression. That goes against popular sentiment and ?Power to the people!? thinking, but where it was once difficult to arrange large protests, that difficultly also served as a filter...by and large, only the true believers got the word.

Today, everybody even remotely connected is alerted, or finds out about it as soon as the rally/march begins. Then the malcontents descend en masse, looking for opportunities to unleash chaos. Protests quickly turn into self-defeating mobs.

that makes sense. Part of the echo chamber that exaggerates everybody's opinions into extremes.

[Prime2]

For those that don't live in denial and have respect for law enforcement and the military......

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/07/armed-robbers-bite-off-more-than-they-can-chew-in-mcdonalds-hold/

[hack]

I'm with you on this one - hang every single one of them. Anyone who eats at McDonalds in France should face the guillotine.