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  • I would have liked to link this but the digital edition of the NYT has now gone subscription so, I stole this for you. It speaks to some of the issues were discussing here. On this 4th of July, I think it important that we give Jefferson's view of the risks of selfishness it's due:

    THIS spring I was on a panel at the Woodstock Writers Festival. An audience member asked a question: Why had the revolution dreamed up in the late 1960s mostly been won on the social and cultural fronts — women’s rights, gay rights, black president, ecology, sex, drugs, rock ’n’ roll — but lost in the economic realm, with old-school free-market ideas gaining traction all the time?





    There was a long pause. People shrugged and sighed. I had an epiphany, which I offered, bumming out everybody in the room.

    What has happened politically, economically, culturally and socially since the sea change of the late ’60s isn’t contradictory or incongruous. It’s all of a piece. For hippies and bohemians as for businesspeople and investors, extreme individualism has been triumphant. Selfishness won.

    From the beginning, the American idea embodied a tension between radical individualism and the demands of the commonweal. The document we’re celebrating today says in its second line that axiomatic human rights include “Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness” — individualism in a nutshell. But the Declaration’s author was not a greed-is-good guy: “Self-love,” Jefferson wrote to a friend 38 years after the Declaration, “is no part of morality. Indeed it is exactly its counterpart. It is the sole antagonist of virtue leading us constantly by our propensities to self-gratification in violation of our moral duties to others.”

    Periodically Americans have gone overboard indulging our propensities to self-gratification — during the 1840s, during the Gilded Age, and again in the Roaring Twenties. Yet each time, thanks to economic crises and reassertions of moral disapproval, a rough equilibrium between individualism and the civic good was restored.
    Consider America during the two decades after World War II. Stereotypically but also in fact, the conformist pressures of bourgeois social norms were powerful. To dress or speak or live life in unorthodox, extravagantly individualist ways required real gumption. Yet just as beatniks were rare and freakish, so were proudly money-mad Ayn Randian millionaires. My conservative Republican father thought marginal income tax rates of 91 percent were unfairly high, but he and his friends never dreamed of suggesting they be reduced below, say, 50 percent. Sex outside marriage was shameful, beards and divorce were outr? — but so were boasting of one’s wealth and blaming unfortunates for their hard luck. When I was growing up in Omaha, rich people who could afford to build palatial houses did not and wouldn’t dream of paying themselves 200 or 400 times what they paid their employees. Greed as well as homosexuality was a love that dared not speak its name.


    But then came the late 1960s, and over the next two decades American individualism was fully unleashed. A kind of tacit grand bargain was forged between the counterculture and the establishment, between the forever-young and the moneyed.
    Going forward, the youthful masses of every age would be permitted as never before to indulge their self-expressive and hedonistic impulses. But capitalists in return would be unshackled as well, free to indulge their own animal spirits with fewer and fewer fetters in the forms of regulation, taxes or social opprobrium.


    “Do your own thing” is not so different than “every man for himself.” If it feels good, do it, whether that means smoking weed and watching porn and never wearing a necktie, retiring at 50 with a six-figure public pension and refusing modest gun regulation, or moving your factories overseas and letting commercial banks become financial speculators. The self-absorbed “Me” Decade, having expanded during the ’80s and ’90s from personal life to encompass the political economy, will soon be the “Me” Half-Century.

    People on the political right have blamed the late ’60s for what they loathe about contemporary life — anything-goes sexuality, cultural coarseness, multiculturalism. And people on the left buy into that, seeing only the ’60s legacies of freedom that they define as progress. But what the left and right respectively love and hate are mostly flip sides of the same libertarian coin minted around 1967. Thanks to the ’60s, we are all shamelessly selfish.

    In that letter from 1814, Jefferson wrote that our tendencies toward selfishness where liberty and our pursuit of happiness lead us require “correctives which are supplied by education” and by “the moralist, the preacher, and legislator.”

    On this Independence Day, I’m doing my small preacherly bit.
    Mission to CFB's National Championship accomplished. But the shine on the NC Trophy is embarrassingly wearing off. It's M B-Ball ..... or hockey or volley ball or name your college sport favorite time ...... until next year.

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    • In some ways much of what the greatest generation created has been destroyed by the baby boomers.

      I fully agree with the article that there were unintended consequences.


      Hoss... Remind you of a conversation we had last summer?
      Last edited by entropy; July 4, 2012, 04:03 PM.
      Grammar... The difference between feeling your nuts and feeling you're nuts.

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      • women’s rights, gay rights, black president [civil rights], ecology....Selfishness won
        .

        Woof.

        It's almost juvenile to think that we haven't always been radically self-interested. I could list dozens upon dozens examples of previous generations acting in a self-interested, disgraceful way. Why hell, I can play off that article's first sentence...

        ...refusing to allow women to vote, slavery then segregation, wanton pollution, disgraceful treatment of workers....why did our previous generations act in ways that today would be considered, at best, despicable and most likely illegal? SELF-INTEREST.

        But, Buchanan has always had a rosy take on previous generations. History is often what we imagine it to be; with the good highlighted and the bad glossed over.
        Dan Patrick: What was your reaction to [Urban Meyer being hired]?
        Brady Hoke: You know.....not....good.

        Comment


        • I'm sorry but the "greatest generation" was only great to the people in power - white males. And white males are the only ones who wax romantic about how things were better in the old days because that was the case for them alone. Every other group has since seen their lives improved. Blacks, homosexuals, women, natives, etc etc etc were all fucked (and still are - just less so). Sure there's the surface level selfishness now (and I can't tell you how much I hate the strange fascination with fame and becoming famous these days) but it doesn't compare to the protection of power that was pooled amongst a select group of individuals previous. That is the definition of self-interest and selfishness. The job of disrupting that balance just hasn't been finished yet and that's why there's such a concentration of power amongst a select group of CEO's who are still holding out. And guess what, the overwhelming majority of them are white males. Go figure.

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          • Instead of Jeff's article denouncing the Civil Rights movement of the 60's, listen to a true inspirational speech.

            [youtube]l31UUl5SyXk[/youtube]

            Well stated, President Pullman

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            • Originally posted by Tony G View Post
              those decisions don't take place in a vacuum. I study human performance at work and the culture of an organization plays a part in decision making. Existing culture is widely recognized as a factor in the chain of events that lead to an incident.
              I'm very interested in organisational culture too. I go on about it ad nauseum here in the context of the university's athletic department and its reputation and brand and how that leads to the sort of decisionmaking we've seen about the football team since the Carr era. Organisational culture is very interesting. So, officially noted -- organisational culture is a factor.

              It's hard to tell what your point is, however. This whole thing came up in the context of how organisations fess up when responsible for an incident/tragedy/crime/whatever. Are you alleging that Penn State's culture is/was exceptional? Are you going to acknowledge that however much of a factor organisational culture is, the employees of them are still men and women who can make decisions and act according to their various values? Because just pointing out that organisations have cultures, and that those cultures play a role -- that's been taken care of now. Maybe it's time to put that point in context, or explain why it is you repeat it and do no not respond to queries in reply about why you're on about it, or just move on already.
              Last edited by hack; July 4, 2012, 09:35 AM.

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              • The point behind my thoughts is to reinforce the organization's culpability here. It's not just the three men who did not follow what should have been their moral compass. That those men failed in this regard is unquestioned. That the organization failed both in terms of oversight and leadership is, to me, equally unquestioned. I'm not saying it to give these guys an out, rather to find what else contributed to this in the hopes that these situations aren't repeated.
                Benny Blades~"If you break down this team man for man, we have talent to compare with any team."

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                • That's apparent now and has been since at least several posts ago in the exchange. Points that remain unclear, should you wish to clear them up:

                  1. What's the problem with acknowledging that, while organisational culture played a role, in the end this episode is essentially one in which people acted immorally? I'm impressed with the wordsmithery you've used to get around that one, but it doesn't answer the question. In fact the effort you've gone to makes me only more curious about why you don't want to say that.

                  2. Is PSU's organisational culture exceptional?

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                  • my response to #1
                    It's not just the three men who did not follow what should have been their moral compass. That those men failed in this regard is unquestioned.
                    #2 I believe that culture is not the norm, at least not to the extent it was here. As far as degree of exceptional-ism, (extraordinary - uncommon - unusual - rare) I would rank it between uncommon and rare
                    Benny Blades~"If you break down this team man for man, we have talent to compare with any team."

                    Comment


                    • It's not just the three men who did not follow what should have been their moral compass.

                      Actually, in the end, to me, it is precisely just that. All the points you can make about organisational culture are trivial in comparison.

                      What holds my interest here is that you won't just say ``these guys acted illegally and immorally''. You're fine to express that in remarkably passive language by saying that they ``lacked the willingness to xx'', or that they ``did not follow a moral compass'' or ``failed in yy regard although here's this organisational culture bit'', or that you'll call PSU's boilerplate response (deny until no longer plausible) as exceptional when it clearly is not. The effort and language choices are very strange.

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                      • The end result is these men will see some prison time. I think that is a just and appropriate end. That my view has a different perspective than yours is unresolvable IMO
                        Benny Blades~"If you break down this team man for man, we have talent to compare with any team."

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                        • Should you care to clear it up, what I'm trying to resolve is what possible motivation there could be taking an obvious conclusion that can be expressed quite clearly and whipping it up into a strange mess of misleading phrases and irrelevant caveats. I fail to see why you'd want to do that.

                          Comment


                          • get a room guys!

                            Comment


                            • what I'm trying to resolve is what possible motivation there could be
                              First off, go screw yourself with your persistent insinuations that I am strange, have a weird motivation, or am otherwise suspect because I fail to take this case and just put a neat little bow on it by saying the 3 men were immoral.

                              Their initial response was to contact the authorities. They then reversed that impulse and went the other way and sat on it and effectively did nothing. That they did this and then lied about it later makes them guilty.

                              Where I see a benefit to a broader examination is in trying to understand how these men got to this place and what were the events that led up to it. If you leave it at just the individuals, you forfeit any additional learning that can be gained on how to prevent this kind of tragedy in the future. That's why I refuse to limit myself with your simplistic approach. It's not about "caveats" that will enable the defense of these men. It's about gaining a complete understanding of how this occurred.

                              Also if you go by your simplistic approach you reduce the culpability for this to just these men. In my mind the school has a liability that extends beyond these men and I refuse to see that excused.
                              Benny Blades~"If you break down this team man for man, we have talent to compare with any team."

                              Comment


                              • Sorry you feel that way. Would you prefer if I said that my willingness to overlook things is insufficient?

                                Seriously though, what do you expect to learn that we don't already know about institutional power? It not new that friends protect each other, that people fear losing their jobs and therefore hush up, and universities are in the brand-protection business. It's not as if the university isn't going to pay a profound price.

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