Miscellaneous And Off Topic Subjects

[hodgkal]

"Less easily quantifiable, but I think there's a cultural difference as well. For any outsider, it's very clear that gun culture is very different in the US versus the rest of your peers. How that manifests itself in this debate is very difficult to parse out, but I would suggest it's an amplifier, rather than a cause."

To get some insight into the gun culture you should read a fabulous book written by former Sec. of the Navy and Virginia Senator Jim Webb. He is an excellent writer and I found insights I was completely ignorant of. It is very illuminating. The book is entitled "Born Fighting: How the Scotch Irish Shaped America". These people emigrated from the Lowlands of Scotland and Northern Ireland as the 4th great wave of immigrants from Europe in the 18th century after centuries of conflict with the British and the Irish Catholics.

It is hard to summarize in a few sentences but Webb describes these as warlike people who argued "with a gun in one hand and a Bible in the other". They lived in clans and despised government. They were not welcome in the northern states and gravitated to Appalachia. They were an instinctively warlike people and spread across the south over the next 2 centuries. They have had a disproportionate influence on the military and gun culture throughout the South and eventually the rest of the nation.

As the bumper sticker puts it: My wife yes; my dog maybe; my gun NEVER!

[Wild Hoss]

I was reading elsewhere that FL state law does not require signage to warn of the presence of native wildlife, except in cases of possession. I did not see a citation or link however.

Sounds like a job for a lawyer with too much spare time on his/her hands...Talent? :-D

[hack]

Instinctively war-like? Sounds like an appropriate spot for legal firearms.

[Dr. Strangelove]

The Donald getting destroyed in fund-raising

http://www.cnn.com/2016/06/20/politics/republicans-cash-crunch-donald-trump/

[drok]

Thanks Doc. I just read the synopsis of the book on Amazon. Might need to pick it up:

https://www.amazon.com/Born-Fighting-Scots-Irish-Shaped-America/dp/0767916891

[hack]

I knew that rang a bell actually -- I've heard it as an explanation for the southern accent. From an Englishman who had nothing very nice to say about Scots and Irish but was quite the learned guy. Perhaps that person had read the same book.

[Mike]

The more I read about the Orlando police response to the shooting, the more I'm convinced they have blood on their hands. Gutless and cowardly.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/police-told-not-to-pursue-orlando-shooter-15-or-20-minutescouldve-been-longer-until-swat-arrived/2016/06/21/ec2f4464-37d0-11e6-a254-2b336e293a3c_story.html

[Jeff Buchanan]

The more I read about the Orlando police response to the shooting, the more I'm convinced they have blood on their hands. Gutless and cowardly.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world...a3c_story.html

Exactly.

People are probably getting worked up over the wrong issue - gun control - when this mass shooting may have resulted in many fewer deaths and injuries had law enforcement acted in a manner that recognized the threat correctly and engaged Mateen right away.

I was struck by the transcript of the 911 calls that suggested that the police became distracted by Mateen's threat there were a bunch of bombs outside and explosive vests inside (there weren't and this was a clever deception on Mateen's part). In fact, they were distracted to the extent that Mateen went unchallenged for over 2 hours while he walked around the club and shot those that tried to hide, we're injured by his gun fire or cowered.

When police fail to act, leave those they are entrusted to protect unprotected, those arguing for citizens to arm themselves have a good point.

[Jeff Buchanan]

I'd put myself in the group who advocates for implementing laws and processes to keep firearms out of the hands of those who are intent with committing gun crimes with them. I did find talent's numbers sobering ....... water on the fire of the current gun control rhetoric.

However, I'm wondering if there is a strong correlation between the ease by which miscreants can obtain a firearm on shootings, mass or otherwise, various gun crimes and homicides. IOW, I'm not sure that looking at the percentage of gun ownership by any group correlates with what any reasonable, law abiding citizen would like to see eliminated.

Drok has suggested that the relationship between committing a gun crime, the reasons for it and the outcomes are complex and probably multifactoral. The little reading I've done, since the Orlando shootings, suggest that as well. The point of this is that prevention of gun crimes, including terrorist acts with them, is going to take a lot more reasoned and informed dialogue than the current one taking place both inside and outside the legislative process.

While it seems crazy that Congress rejects what would seem to be reasonable gun control legislation in the most recent proposals for it, I also get why. The most justifiable reasons to me involve the questions of placing citizens on a list which then precludes the purchase of a firearm without providing due process. That is such a fundamental right in this country that, for now, I just can't see it being so easily abridged.

[iam416]

I'm adamantly opposed to using the "Terror Watch List" to deprive any citizen of Constitutional rights. Period. I mean, the ACLU -- which doesn't really defend the 2nd A too much -- has called this bullshit.

However, I'm wondering if there is a strong correlation between the ease by which miscreants can obtain a firearm on shootings, mass or otherwise, various gun crimes and homicides.

I can't imagine that there isn't. If I had to guess, most miscreants use handguns. The vast majority of guns used in homicides were not legally procured. So, you have a country with 300 million guns or so floating around that create an easy black market.

I find it remarkably similar to the drug problem. In terms of cost, drug overdoses claim more lives, by a considerable amount, than gun homicides. Drugs, too, are massively prevalent. There are tons of laws addressing drugs. But the reality is harsh.

If someone proposed further cracking down on drugs then I'd LOL at the pointlessness of it all. I'm in the same boat re guns. I'm also in the same boat re guns as, mostly, a civil libertarian.

[Prime2]

The more I read about the Orlando police response to the shooting, the more I'm convinced they have blood on their hands. Gutless and cowardly.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world...a3c_story.html

That's right Mike, the cavalry ain't coming. Law enforcement can't be everywhere and usually they arrive after the carnage is over, counting bodies, yellow taping the area and filing police reports on exactly just what the hell happened.

Obtain a CCW, train extensively, become proficient with the pistol, protect your life and the lives around you. Mass shootings are sensationalized by the media , home invasions, ATM/convience store robberies and car-jackings are the most frequent threats to guard against by and large.

Stealth is the key as well as a legal requirement, your pistol must remain concealed at all times, draw and use to repel deadly aggression with lethal force only.

Element of surprise is everything, the criminal has no idea that you are armed until it is too late for him.

Re: Talent, ban/confiscate firearms, about a century too late but a Guns for Unicorns exchange program may be worth your effort. LOL

[Jeff Buchanan]

I found this link interesting. This group has an agenda but who doesn't:

http://www.preventioninstitute.org/focus-areas/preventing-violence-and-reducing-injury/preventing-violence-advocacy.html

Summary ....... There're are good ways to reduce gun related violence that have nothing to do with the current proposals before congress to do so. What are our representatives thinking? Appealing to their generally poorly informed constituents and getting re elected.

[hack]

1. Collect underpants
2. ???
3. Profit!!!

...

1. Legal firearms
2. ???
3. Public safety

[Da Geezer]

Stealth is the key as well as a legal requirement, your pistol must remain concealed at all times, draw and use to repel deadly aggression with lethal force only.

Exactly, Prime. I believe it would be of overall benefit to the country if there were more education as to the simple existence of such weapons. I have a friend (a roofer) who carries a .32 with a laser site in his back pocket in a case the size of a billfold.

And I agree 100% with Talent that a no-fly, no-buy, or terror-watch list is both unworkable and, more important, unconstitutional because it violates due process. The use of the IRS to target conservatives has an unintended consequence of greatly diminishing trust in bureaucrats ("civil servants" to the left). The media barbeque of the citizen who reported Prof. Gates as he tried to break into his own home resulted in others not being willing to report suspicious behavior in San Bernardino.

And over 25 minutes of the 911 exchange in Orlando has still not been released as of this morning.

[Da Geezer]

There was an interesting interview on Univision yesterday that has not been discussed. Univision interviewed Omar Mateen's male lover (of the last two months). He has been interviewed by the FBI three times since Orlando. He said that Mateen was confused as to sexuality, and thought he was gay.

The point I thought most interesting, and one confirmed by a fellow who was at one time an Islamic radical, was that a gay nightclub would be viewed by Islam as a Western invention. In other words, because acceptance of gays is common in advanced economies, the interviewee said that a gay night club and Disney World would both shout "Western Infidel".

The fact that Pulse was a gay night club was more about it being Western than it being gay. I'd like to know more about this lover and his insights if anyone sees something.