Miscellaneous And Off Topic Subjects

[hack]

Getting to the roots of it is a generational problem. Easy answer that's hard to implement because it requires policy stability over the course of decades. But the access to weaponry is oxygen.

[Wild Hoss]

I like what Jeffrey Goldberg said, when he said it can be about guns, homophobia, Islamic terrorism, etc...

Trying to find one magic bullet to stop this is a fools errand.

Its a good point....but how does he proscribe that we deal with homophobia and Islamic terrorism? Technically, the guns part can be dealt with by governments, and has. Homophobia and Islamic terrorism are a bit tougher nuts.

[iam416]

Homophobia is on its way out in the US. It's been defeated. Each passing generation will bury it further. It'll be a fringe thing much sooner than later.

Islamic terrorism, however...that seems to be on the come...not necessarily in the US, but worldwide...

Also, I miscredited re political rorschach and San Bernardino...I read it from Jim Geraghty and then a guy wrote about on the Spectator. Not Jonah Goldberg. Regardless of source, I think it's an apt comparison.

[Dr. Strangelove]

BTW, hope everyone is prepared for their 401ks and pound sterling to take a hit in about 10 days time!!

[lineygoblue]

We're getting close to discussing that really large elephant in the room ...but I digress ...

[iam416]

BTW, hope everyone is prepared for their 401ks and pound sterling to take a hit in about 10 days time!!

UK bookies have Brexit at 35% and Remain at 65%. UK polling is a bit shaky; bookies, despite their Leicester gaffe, are probably more accurate.

[hack]

I think they remain, but I have $5k in invoices out right now denominated in pounds. Not that I control when those get paid, but if I did I'd gamble on waiting.

[hodgkal]

The earlier discussion about missionaries brings back for me some interesting personal experiences. We belonged to the Dutch Reformed Church in Kalamazoo for many years (Geezer would identify). A medical missionary family supported by this church had spent their entire adult lifetime in the Middle East, mostly Bahrain and Oman. When they were home on a one year sabbatical (1980s) they stayed in our city and and attended our church, and we became friends. He and I played tennis together and got together socially. After much cajoling they prevailed on a longstanding invitation to host us in Oman. And we went over there in 1990 (just before the first Gulf War)

It was a fabulous and life altering experience, but my point is what I learned, that religious proselytizing is self defeating. Our friends soon realized they were not welcome if all they did was try to convert the locals. Instead they became servants, the husband as a devoted physician who provided free services and his wife a devoted teacher of English. In the capital city of Muscat they were truly beloved by the local population. In that sense they lived the life of Christianity, to serve others.

We also learned about the different branches of Islam, and particularly the Wahabbi sect in nearby Saudi Arabia. Oman is a far more progressive country and tolerant of other groups. It practices a far more enlightened form of Islam. It is partly due to the fact the leader of the country (the Sultan) was educated in England and absorbed a lot of the culture of the west. They educate their girls who are treated far more equally than other Muslim countries. The women do not wear the veil, eg.

This is just a very brief description of an experience that has been really inspiring.

[iam416]

It was a fabulous and life altering experience, but my point is what I learned, that religious proselytizing is self defeating.

One quick thing I read on this after Hack raised it was that the vast majority of christian missionaries go to countries that are already majority (or way more) christian (mostly Oceania and Carribbean). They do not spend their time trying to get a beach head for reasons you stated, but rather focus on consolidation. Or so it would seem from the one website I looked at trying to get a sense about stats.

In any event, that's a good story. First, I think it's an accurate representation of christians. Second, it's good to remember that muslim countries don't have to be medieval. One must take care in bashing the shitbirds.

[Da Geezer]

Doc:

I belong to a Reformed Church, and have for most of my life. I know the exact pair of missionaries you are speaking about in Oman. I particularly remember them telling about the relative handful of converts to Christianity they had made in Oman. But, as you say, they lived out their faith in service to the people of Muscat. I guess the point is that Christianity is not only about evangelizing. It is also about service. I'd recommend the movie "Poverty, Inc." for a polemic about why Hack has a disdain for missionaries.

[froot loops]

With the element of surprise, a law abiding US Patriot with a concealed weapon permit and basic training would have made all the difference in the world. Small calibre, strategically placed with confidence, Arab, Muslim, Terrorist coward....game over, he never would have known what hit him.

He was engaged by an off duty police officer carrying a gun almost immediately.

[Mike]

Which makes me wonder what that cop was doing while the guy shot 102 people. One of them should have been shot long before that happened.

[iam416]

Any policy value in comparing Paris and Orlando? Similar attacks with some distinctions worth noting. I've read that France has much tighter gun control laws than the US. I have no idea if this is true or not, but it seems credible. France and Paris also have, I think, significantly larger muslim populations in concentrated spaces that, to a significant degree, are insular.

I haven't really thought on the differences as instructing policy, so I really am wondering out loud.

[Da Geezer]

Yes. I've noticed that there is little said about the outcome of the "exchange of gunfire" with the policeman. Most reports say that the policeman was off duty and was providing security for Pulse.

[Da Geezer]

Hack:

I've heard that France has "the most restrictive gun laws in the world", but I don't know how one would measure that. The news today includes an attack on a police chief in France by a man invoking ISIS. The attacker stabbed the chief outside his home, and then took the wife and 3 year old boy inside. He then live-streamed the torture and death of the wife for 12 minutes before killing her (with a knife).