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  • This just popped up. In some ways, it's a counter argument to what I just posted. The difference is that the authors in the Economist article think giving the Ukrainians Polish and Bulgarian aircraft is fine. IMO, that will produce the same result that the Economist's authors are trying to avoid by arguing against a declaration of a no-fly-zone. It's pay-walled. It's important though. Fuck it.

    Ukraine’s president, Volodymyr Zelensky, has called for one. His enemy, Vladimir Putin, has condemned the idea. A no-fly zone is becoming a measure of how fervently you support Mr Zelensky and his brave compatriots. Who could be against protecting Ukrainian civilians from Russian bombing that counts as a war crime? Besides, a no-fly zone would let Ukrainian troops strike at Russian convoys without the threat of an aerial attack. It is an alluring proposal. It is also wrong-headed.

    Calls for NATO to impose a no-fly zone are growing louder because, in the second week of war, Russia has switched tactics. After the failure of its initial lightning assault, through a combination of Ukrainian courage and resourcefulness and Russian incompetence, Mr Putin is resorting to the murderous use of brute force. Russian armour has made most ground in the south, having burst out from Crimea and from Donbas in the east. Progress in the north is slow, but the aim is clearly for troops coming from Belarus and the east to encircle the capital Kyiv, besiege it and, if necessary, pummel it into submission.

    The worse the war goes for Mr Putin, the more he will resort to terrorising Ukrainian civilians—and seek to present their leaders with the agonising choice between surrender or mass slaughter. People are already suffering grievously in cities like Kharkiv and Chernihiv, where they are being bombarded indiscriminately, including with cluster bombs, which inflict heavy casualties by spreading explosives over a wide area. Aerial attacks have been reported in Zhytomyr, Bucha and Irpin and other towns surrounding Kyiv. A ceasefire in Mariupol, on the Sea of Azov, to give residents safe passage, broke down when Russian forces resumed their barrage after just 45 minutes.

    The proponents of a no-fly zone, including Ukraine’s government, argue that preventing Russia from using its aircraft or drones would protect civilians against these merciless tactics. Some NATO members enforced a no-fly zone over parts of Iraq in the 1990s and later that decade over Bosnia and in 2011 over Libya during the overthrow of its dictator, Muammar Qaddafi. NATO should impose one today, too, they say.

    They think that a no-fly zone would not only fulfil a humanitarian imperative, but it would also make sense for NATO. Tactically, they say, it would deprive Mr Putin of an important weapon, buy Ukrainian forces time to resupply and give them more freedom to attack Russian columns. A no-fly zone would be strategically valuable, too, they argue. Mr Putin has made clear that one of his aims is to wreck NATO, by pushing the United States out of Europe. That is much less likely if the invasion of Ukraine fails.

    The support for these arguments is likely to grow with the killing in Ukrainian cities. And every right-thinking person should be in favour of seeing Mr Zelensky and his people defeat Mr Putin’s armies. However, the closer you look, the more it is apparent that a no-fly zone would not only fail to bring this about, but also court catastrophe.

    For one thing, it would do little or nothing to further its main aim, of protecting Ukrainian civilians. Russia is relying chiefly on artillery and missiles to attack Ukrainian cities. To the extent that it is using air power, its commanders would simply shift more of their effort to ground-based weapons. Having accepted that the killing of civilians is morally unacceptable, would NATO be able to stand back as the slaughter continued?

    In the past no-fly zones have not been tightly enforced, because patrolling large parts of the skies is costly and difficult. To do so would also lead to direct conflict between Russia and America. NATO aircraft—which here means the US Air Force—would first need to destroy Russian air-defence systems. If, as is likely, Russian aircraft continued to fly regardless, then NATO would have to start shooting them out of the sky.

    Mr Putin seems to believe that he is already at war with NATO. If he will not stop at Ukraine, he must be defeated militarily. Why not get it over with now, while he is struggling?

    The answer is that there is a world of difference between diplomatic and logistical support for Ukraine and outright combat with Russia. Mr Putin has already shown that, faced with a setback on the battlefield, his instinct is to escalate. If NATO starts shooting down Russia’s air force, it is inviting him to raise the stakes by, for instance, shelling the alliance’s frontline states. NATO could find itself in the position where it, too, has to escalate in response, so as to preserve the credibility of the pledge that an attack on one member is an attack on all, the cornerstone of the alliance.

    Be under no illusions, such an escalation could lead to nuclear war, especially if—as is likely—Mr Putin felt the need to compensate for Russia’s defeat in a conventional exchange. Russia’s president has already threatened to use nuclear weapons. There has also been speculation that he could be preparing a chemical attack. The logic of escalation requires each side to meet an assault by retaliating. It can easily become a test of which side is most willing to go to the greatest extreme.

    By upholding the distinction between fighting Russia and supporting Ukraine, NATO limits the risk of such an escalation, even if it does not remove it entirely. That is because NATO is signalling that there are limits to its involvement, and because Russia cannot so easily slide from action inside Ukraine to action inside NATO.

    By contrast, a no-fly zone makes war in NATO’s frontline states a continuation of the war in Ukraine. It courts catastrophe without even holding out the promise of bringing material help to Mr Zelensky and his forces.

    NATO is already supplying Ukraine with lethal weapons and imposing harsh sanctions on Russia. It can and should do more. One idea is for Poland to give Ukraine some of its old Soviet-made fighter aircraft. It could also bolster Ukrainian air-defences with longer-range systems than the portable Stinger missiles they have received so far. Both would help more than asking NATO pilots to do the job for them.

    Another good idea would be to degrade Russia’s economy further by imposing embargoes on buying Russian oil and gas. The current sanctions avoid energy, but Russia desperately needs hard currency from oil and gas exports to pay for its imports, because existing sanctions have frozen its reserves.

    Both arms supplies and an embargo also risk escalation. And sanctions on Russian energy would come at a high price to the world economy. But they entail less risk and a lower price than a no-fly zone would. What is more, they might actually work.
    Mission to CFB's National Championship accomplished. But the shine on the NC Trophy is embarrassingly wearing off. It's M B-Ball ..... or hockey or volley ball or name your college sport favorite time ...... until next year.

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    • So how long after the first US "NATO" plane shoots down a Russian plane does Putin push the button?
      "The stockings were hung by the chimney with care, .. I'd worn them for weeks, and they needed the air"

      Comment


      • Originally posted by lineygoblue View Post
        So how long after the first US "NATO" plane shoots down a Russian plane does Putin push the button?
        I hope you at least perused the two opposing views on actions that could result in a NATO on Russia confrontation. To me, the choices are plain:
        • (1) you wait on a longer term assessment of Putin's and the world's reactions to sanctions, and that assumes next steps where Russia is shut out of the global banking system completely and Putin cannot get enough hard currency in any way including the sale of oil and gas (China will still buy it .... maybe. The pressure on China not to will be intense) to finance his war. The downside risk is (a) the slaughter and suffering of Ukrainians while the world waits and (b) the potential that Putin won't back down under sanctions and the inevitable force on force conflict between NATO and Russia is just a can kicked down the road.
        • (2) place the airframes from Poland and Bulgaria into service in Ukraine to include the necessary logistics to support them. The downside risks are (a) that is going to be hard for a number of reasons including the Russians won't stand by and let it happen overland - they'll attack efforts to move stuff from those NATO countries into Ukraine. (b) Doing this is the match that ignites a NATO on Russia conventional engagement, the risk of escalation beyond Ukraine and an increasing risk of a nuclear exchange.
        Take your pick ...... the nuclear playbook - that admittedly may no longer apply as most playbooks developed over the last 70 years have been pitched by Putin - as it is to be played is different and much more complex than the cause and effect scenario you laid out.
        Mission to CFB's National Championship accomplished. But the shine on the NC Trophy is embarrassingly wearing off. It's M B-Ball ..... or hockey or volley ball or name your college sport favorite time ...... until next year.

        Comment


        • I keep reading here how Biden has decimated US oil production. The alltime high for US crude production was Nov. 2019 with 12.966 million barrels a day. It started declining a bit and then covid happened. By May 2020 we were only producing 9.711 million barrels.

          In Trump's last month the US produced 11.056 million barrels. In Dec 2021 we were producing 11.567 barrels.





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          • Don't confuse them with facts. It hurts der widdle bwains.
            I don't watch Fox News for the same reason I don't eat out of a toilet.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Obi-Jon View Post
              Don't confuse them with facts. It hurts der widdle bwains.
              It's not worth pointing out that they are wrong.

              The same bullshit is all over social media. The right wing memes all spout this false shit and of course, the Rubes are lapping it up.
              I feel like I am watching the destruction of our democracy while my neighbors and friends cheer it on

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              • Just looking at oil production numbers does not tell the whole story. There are several reasons for high gas prices among them being straight up supply and demand. When the pandemic hit oil production was drastically reduced (March 2020 and on) because demand was gutted...as the economy opened up...travel increased...consumption increased...but production didn't match...and crude oil inventories dropped to 10 year lows...inventory of crude is a huge factor in oil prices. Combine this with Biden's killing pipelines...Russian invasion due to the weakness shown by this administration regarding the Afghanistan debacle...OPEC doing their typical bs...there is blame to be had from all directions...but a large part is very much placed on the Biden policies and to deny this is just plain ridiculous.
                Shut the fuck up Donny!

                Comment


                • Republicans are hitting President Joe Biden over his decision to cancel the Keystone XL pipeline as gas prices rise across the country in the wake of Russia's invasion of Ukraine.

                  Former Vice President Mike Pence said last week "gas prices have risen across the country because of this Administration's war on energy—shutting down the Keystone Pipeline, shutting down oil and gas leases in this country—while they were incomprehensibly green-lighting the Nord Stream 2 deal for the Russians."

                  Senator Tim Scott told Fox News on Wednesday canceling the pipeline was "catastrophic" and that "the prices we're seeing today are reflective of his decisions a year ago, not reflective of the conflict that started days ago."

                  But James Glynn, a senior research scholar at Columbia University's Center on Global Energy Policy, said the Keystone pipeline—even if operational—likely wouldn't have had an impact on the global energy markets.
                  NEWSWEEK NEWSLETTER SIGN-UP >
                  "There is little evidence to back up the argument that Keystone XL would have averted some of this price spike," Glynn told Newsweek. "The Keystone pipeline capacity is less than one-tenth of Russian oil exports."

                  "Even if Keystone XL was filled with fully additional Canadian export capacity, which would have been an unlikely scenario, it would not balance the global oil markets where the price of oil is set through a global arbitrage of the last marginal available barrel," Glynn continued.

                  The current national average for a gallon of gasoline is $3.837, according to the American Automobile Association (AAA). That's an increase of over 20 cents from the national average reported the week before.

                  The White House has also emphasized that the Keystone Pipeline was never running, and was less than 10 percent completed when the project was shut down, amid criticism from the Republican Party.
                  I feel like I am watching the destruction of our democracy while my neighbors and friends cheer it on

                  Comment


                  • Windmill and electric cars. That's the answer.
                    "The stockings were hung by the chimney with care, .. I'd worn them for weeks, and they needed the air"

                    Comment


                    • Is CVGT really Jen Psaki?
                      Shut the fuck up Donny!

                      Comment


                      • An interview with Mike Repass, the former commander of Special Operations Command in Europe.


                        In a discussion with National Security Analyst Peter Bergen, retired US Army Major General Mike Repass explains what he sees happening next as the war in Ukraine grinds on.



                        Finding that Ukraine isn’t bending over like Wiz in a prison shower, Russia looks to decimate the cities to create a refugee crisis in order to destabilize Central Europe. Using Putrid’s playbook, should NATO declare that X number of refugees will be considered an act of war and trigger a military response? Would such a declaration reduce the indiscriminate shelling of civilian areas?

                        I don't watch Fox News for the same reason I don't eat out of a toilet.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Dr. Strangelove View Post
                          I keep reading here how Biden has decimated US oil production. The alltime high for US crude production was Nov. 2019 with 12.966 million barrels a day. It started declining a bit and then covid happened. By May 2020 we were only producing 9.711 million barrels.

                          In Trump's last month the US produced 11.056 million barrels. In Dec 2021 we were producing 11.567 barrels.

                          https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/hist/Le...s=MCRFPUS2&f=M


                          That's great. But, when your stated goal is to eliminate fossil fuel production and when you're virtue-signaling the shit out of your desires for harmster-in-a-cage energy and when high fossil fuel energy prices is a FEATURE of the green agenda, you're going to get hit for high gas prices. FULL. FUCKING. STOP.

                          First, every President gets hit for the blame on high gas prices. Second, The Chairman has actually taken steps and signed EOs to indicate how hostile he is to, well, cheap, fossil fuel energy. Third, a significant plurality (perhaps majority) of your party want high fossil fuel energy prices and want to eliminate fossil fuels (i.e., cheap energy).

                          You (and some notable others) literally spent four years hanging on every WORD that came out of PDJT's insipid twitter account and hollering like it was the end of time when there almost always zero real world consequences. Now, all of a sudden, you're some sort of nuanced "he doesn't really mean this shit and even if he did, it's ok, because his words don't really matter" poster.

                          No, no....wait, I do remember you saying the "kids in cages" utter bullshit was the same thing Obama did and then noting last year that it's the same thing Biden did and I remember you very ardently taking The Chairman to task for media blackout on his "kids in cages" stuff. I remember all that -- as just one example.

                          Come. The. Fuck. On.

                          But, hey, man, I think it's a great idea for The Chairman and the Ds to go the American public and try to pump up their bonafides on how much they want a huge supply of cheap energy.

                          This is, to some degree a politics thread. It's mostly a bullshit thread with a small dose of Buchana word walls. But, in the pure sense of objectively talking politics, ou're way, way, way too smart to not understand the optics of The Chairman's words, the optics of his virtue-signaling and how that gets tied to real word realities. I mean, that's Poltiics 101.
                          Last edited by iam416; March 7, 2022, 09:10 AM.
                          Dan Patrick: What was your reaction to [Urban Meyer being hired]?
                          Brady Hoke: You know.....not....good.

                          Comment


                          • I'm sure that The Chairam and his lackeys will soon rush to blame the "transitory" inflation on anything other than his own governance. I mean, literally, all we needed to do -- according to The Chairman -- was pass a $3T spending bill to correct inflation. Thanks to Manchin and the Rs, of course, that didn't happen so here we are.

                            fucking Rs
                            Dan Patrick: What was your reaction to [Urban Meyer being hired]?
                            Brady Hoke: You know.....not....good.

                            Comment


                            • Biden Makes Sweeping Changes to Oil and Gas Policy


                              January 28, 2021

                              President Joe Biden has followed through on a campaign pledge by introducing a moratorium on new oil and gas leasing on federal lands and waters. With nearly 25 percent of U.S. oil and gas production coming from federal lands, the policy shift may have significant implications for future investment and production. The backlash from oil and gas producing states will be fierce and lawsuits have already begun, but the Biden administration views this policy as a key part of its climate agenda and is unlikely to change course.

                              Q1: What changes has Biden made?

                              A1: In a January 27 executive order that introduced a sweeping, government-wide approach to climate policy, Biden announced several new oil and gas policies. The Biden administration is halting new oil and gas leasing on federal onshore lands and offshore waters “to the extent consistent with applicable law.” This pause will not affect existing operations or permits for existing leases, and private lands will not be affected. The Department of the Interior states that Native American tribal lands will be exempted. Biden has also directed the secretary of the interior to consider whether to adjust coal, oil, and gas royalties in order to account for corresponding climate costs, suggesting the possibility of a royalty increase. Biden ordered the Department of the Interior to take steps toward conserving 30 percent of public lands and waters by 2030 and toward doubling offshore wind production in the same timeframe. These moves follow executive orders that halted implementation of a leasing program in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge and effectively suspended new leases, contracts, or drilling permits for at least 60 days. Biden’s January 20 executive order also withdrew the permit for the Keystone XL pipeline and directed agencies to consider new rules to curb methane emissions from oil and gas. Last, Biden has directed government agencies to work toward eliminating fossil fuel subsidies by fiscal year 2022.

                              Q2: How will this affect U.S. oil and gas production?

                              A2: Federal land accounts for about 24 percent of oil and gas production in the United States, mainly in the offshore Gulf of Mexico. But since companies with existing leases will not be affected, the near-term impact on exploration and production as well as royalties to states will be limited. With more than 26 million onshore acres and 12 million offshore acres already under lease, there is a deep inventory of exploration opportunities. Companies may have secured more onshore and offshore permits in recent lease sales in anticipation of a policy change by the Biden administration. A more permanent leasing ban would have a significant impact, although visible offshore production declines may not materialize for up to 10 years, given the typical timeframe for planning, exploration, appraisal, and development. Onshore production declines could conceivably show up faster, but leases typically last for 10 years and drilling activity on recently acquired leases may not begin for some time. A permanent ban on new leases would affect numerous states with oil and gas resources. New Mexico—home to the prolific Delaware Basin—is an exception to the rule that most shale oil and gas resources are found on private lands, and the state accounts for more than 60 percent of existing federal drilling permits. Rocky Mountain states including Wyoming, Colorado, and Montana would take a hit from a permanent leasing ban. The Gulf States would be harmed by declining exploration and production due to lower royalties, as well as the impact on the oilfield services sector and related industries. In general, a leasing ban on public lands would drive more investors to private and state land.

                              Q3: Will this lead to a permanent leasing ban on public lands?

                              A3: The leasing moratorium is likely just the beginning of a significant policy shift. The president has asked the Department of the Interior for a comprehensive review of the federal oil and gas program, and directed government agencies to examine the climate impact of future oil and gas activity on public lands. These reviews are likely to generate new rules and guidance. The Bureau of Land Management (BLM) could potentially impose stricter requirements for future resource management plans for onshore areas, perhaps by introducing tougher climate impact assessments in the National Environmental Policy Act reviews of proposed land use plans. Applications for permit to drill (APDs) on federal lands are typically granted for two years and are often extended. In the future, however, the BLM could impose tougher requirements related to gas flaring or water management that will make it harder for onshore operators to secure new drilling permits. The Bureau of Safety and Environmental Enforcement could take the same tack with offshore APDs. The exact rules and guidance that may emerge are difficult to predict. But aside from outright bans on new leasing, there are many ways to raise the regulatory bar so high that it could be difficult for companies to operate on federal lands.

                              Industry associations object to Biden’s executive orders, arguing that they will deter investment, kill jobs, reduce state revenues, and shift oil and gas production to other countries. Legal battles have already begun. Lawmakers in states like Alaska, Wyoming, Montana, and the Gulf Coast states have vowed to contest Biden’s plans, and may argue that laws including the Mineral Leasing Act require regular lease sales on public lands. Some governors may seek exceptions to the ban on leasing, but such efforts seem unlikely to succeed. The Biden campaign made these pledges to halt new leasing months ago and knew they would generate a backlash. The administration is determined to push ahead with its climate and energy priorities and emphasizes the number of new jobs that will be created in expanding renewable energy and associated infrastructure.
                              Shut the fuck up Donny!

                              Comment


                              • fuckin' Mango Man
                                Shut the fuck up Donny!

                                Comment

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