Miscellaneous And Off Topic Subjects

[Da Geezer]

Well, Mateen had thought it through enough to arrive outside the door at last call. He carried enough ammo to gun down over 100 people. I doubt if this was just a fellow who had seen a couple of gay guys kissing and got pissed (that is what Mateen's father said). Sickening to have a presidential candidate showing such joy at mass murder, terror or not.

Hack: good link thanks. Corporations don't vote. But you could expect, over time, that the makers might get upset with all the goodies given to many large corporations.

Good point CGVT. Suppose we consider any government job that earns less than a similar job in the private sector would be a net subsidy to the government, hence similar to paying taxes. Private sector military like Blackwater make over 100k yearly. I really doubt if persons would make a life decision based upon having or not having the franchise.

[Da Geezer]

I thought I'd paste a quote from the "World Affairs" link that Hack posted above:

Indeed, 80 percent of the 1,200 mosques operating in the US were constructed after 2001, more often than not with Saudi financing. As a result, Wahhabi influence over Islamic institutions in the US was considerable by 2003, according to testimony before the US Senate. Hundreds of publications, published by the Saudi government and its affiliates, and filled with intolerance toward Christians, Jews, and other Americans, had been disseminated across the country by 2006, according to a report by Freedom House, a Washington-based NGO. That report concluded that “the Saudi government propaganda examined reflects a totalitarian ideology of hatred that can incite to violence.” By 2013, 75 percent of North American Islamic centers relied on Wahhabi preachers who promote anti-Western ideas in person and online through their sermons and through the Saudi-produced literature.

It never crossed my mind that the Wahhabi influence in the US is so pervasive and so recent.

[The Oracle]

Seriously, is there a bigger fucking douchebag in life than Trump? I mean all his (non)policies aside, who wants him as the face of our country, besides Hanni. I mean fuck me sideways. Who wants to listen to his bullshit for the next 4 years. He won't win, but if he does he'll be a prime candidate for an assassination attempt. Who tweets that shit right after?

And someone explain to me, after having been interviewed twice by the FBI, he's allowed to waltz into a gun shop and buy an AR-15? Jeezus.

[Mike]

You can be on the no fly list and still purchase any firearm you want in the good old USA.

The Senate tried to pass a bill in December that would prohibit the sale of weapons and explosives to people on the terrorist watch list but it failed miserably because 'MERICA! Both weapons used in the Orlando shooting were purchased in the last week.

[UMStan White]

"BTW, thanks for engaging in a debate on "net tax payers". Maybe we can get back to it, but there are far bigger issues to talk about after last night."

Debating whether the US should adopt a "net tax payer" voting system is as idiotic as debating whether the earth will be invaded first by Venutians or Martians.

[iam416]

You can be on the no fly list and still purchase any firearm you want in the good old USA.

Because being on the no fly list is up to some administrative decision with little evidentiary requirements and little to no due process. In fact, the NYT has even argued strongly against the DNF: http://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/19/op...?_r=0&referer=

If the 2nd A is a basic constitutional right -- and it is under Heller, then you can't just take that away from people w/o cause and w/o process. End of story. The answer is to revamp the fucked up DNF procedure.

[Mike]

Thanks for the info. It doesn't matter anyway because nobody on either side of the aisle will do anything. Ever.

And given that these events are our reality and it isn't going away, the authorities need to rethink this "shelter in place" nonsense. One of the victims was texting with his mom during the shooting (FTR, bad idea) and she told him to hide in the bathroom. Last I checked there is no escaping a bathroom. Anyway, the guy came in and shot everyone. Shelter in Place needs to replaced with Run Like Hell! Moving targets are very hard to hit. Especially panicked ones who really really don't want to be shot. People groveling for their life on a bathroom floor are very easy to shoot.

[iam416]

It doesn't matter anyway because nobody on either side of the aisle will do anything. Ever.

Well, true.

I just hate the DNF/guns meme. As a bit of a civil libertarian, I hate to see the DNF list used to deprive anyone of their rights until they come up with an effective, efficient process/review mechanism. I think they NYT editorial does a good job of highlighting the inconvenience/bullshit associated with DNF even when it's just used re air travel.

[hack]

Well, true.

Confirms everything I know about people from Ohio.

[lineygoblue]

If the 2nd A is a basic constitutional right -- and it is under Heller, then you can't just take that away from people w/o cause and w/o process. End of story.

I believe the 9th Circuit just ruled in California, that the Constitution does not grant the right to citizens to carry guns. Hopefully, someone will challenge that ruling to the USSC. Although, it may not matter, because the current hung court may decide not to rule, or Hillary's appointee may agree.

[iam416]

9th C said no right to carry concealed.

[Hannibal]

Re -- shelter in place:

I think that they are walking that back somewhat. In recent years we have gotten "shooter" training at work and I believe that the recommendation now is to make a break for it if you've got a path to the exit.

[Hannibal]

[froot loops]

This jerk liked to take a lot of selfies.

[Jeff Buchanan]

While I agree there are gun control issues here, the biggest issue to me remains protecting US Citizens from becoming victims of terrorist acts fueled by radical Islam. It's not possible to consider Mateen a gun totting crazy while eliminating his connection to Islamic extremism and I sense a trend both here and in the press to do that.

There's been one, maybe two posts here regarding the elephant in the room ...... namely the debate regarding the protection of Civil Liberties versus the need for improved Counterterrorism Policies.

Mateen was an Islamic terrorist and our current safety net for identifying him as such and preventing him from carrying out the terrorist act he perpetrated failed us ....... Jon, I am waiting for your response.