Miscellaneous And Off Topic Subjects

[lineygoblue]

I feel just the opposite. This is a Europe problem. Let Europe deal with it.

Europe has dozens of cemeteries filled with American soldiers graves, who gave their lives for Europe.

Enough already. Europe made a deal with the devil Putin, now let them deal with him.

[Obi-Jon]

I hope we pulled the version one Predator drones out of mothballs and gave them to Ukraine with a shit ton of Hellfire missiles. And coat them with radar absorbing paint. That would make Russia's impending blitzkrieg less than pain-free. It would also give China something to think about.

Over the course of my 30+ year career at a multinational, I've worked with my share of Russians and Ukrainians. For 20 million reasons, they still HATE the Germans. Why isn't Ukraine playing the same propaganda game as Russia? Paint Putin as the evil that he is, for Russian home consumption. Trot Zelenskyy out in front of the UN General Assembly and have him ask, "The world did nothing when Hitler invaded the Sudetenland to "protect" ethic Germans. What will the world do when Putin invades Ukraine "protect" ethic Russians?" Call out Putin for what he is - an autocrat bent on expanding the Russian Empire. Not that the UN has any value beyond being a soapbox, but that comparison would certainly hit a Russian nerve.

[Dr. Strangelove]

Unless he gets a last second major concession from the West, Putin is very likely to recognize the "independence" of Donetsk and Luhansk in the near future. Perhaps as soon as tonight or tomorrow. The new "independent nations" could then request Russian military assistance, allowing them to operate there openly for the first time.

The separatists claim authority over all of those two provinces even though the Ukrainian govt still controls over half. What will happen if Putin demands the Ukrainians leave all territory claimed by the separatists?

[Dr. Strangelove]

Putin currently addressing the nation and starts off with a long, self-serving history lesson in which he denies Ukraine is a real country, just a concept invented by Lenin and the Bolsheviks. Says the Soviets were "mad" to allow individual Republics the ability to leave the greater empire.

[THE_WIZARD_]

I see we aren't the only country that likes to rewrite history...

[Dr. Strangelove]

Over 20 minutes in and as one person described it, it's almost entirely been about how Ukraine has no right to exist as an independent country. He declared the breakup of the Soviet Union an illegal action taken by the late stage Communists.

Supposedly during Macron's 6 hour meeting with Putin a couple weeks ago he had to sit there and listen to a similar very long rant about history.

[Dr. Strangelove]

Putin says Ukraine has squandered their USSR legacy. Warns that Ukraine is pursuing nuclear weapons and plans to use them against Russia?! Says he will never allow that to happen.

I hope I am right and that Putin is still a rational actor. But he's almost 70 and by all accounts has gotten very isolated in recent years. I hope he's not off his rocker. This speech is not encouraging.

[THE_WIZARD_]

...so Putin wants to put the band back together...

Good luck with that Vlad...

[Mike]

He must have forgotten that it was a spectacular failure the first time around.

[Dr. Strangelove]

Finally wrapped up by saying Russia will recognize the Separatist Republics as legitimate independent countries and that all further bloodshed is the fault of Ukraine and the West. Didn't say either way what the borders of those "Republics" will look like. And what do ya know? The puppet leaders of the "Republics" are immediately on hand to watch Vlad sign the paperwork declaring them autonomous.

[Jeff Buchanan]

You may have read these kinds of takes on all of this but what Putin is doing by recognizing the two regions of Ukraine as separate nations hasn't happened since WWII - for all intent and purpose a sovereign nation absorbing another against it's will. Germany did it when it invaded Poland in 1939. TBF, that's where the similarities end.

I'm not abandoning my belief that the coalescing of the aims of China and Russia, i.e., both advancing the idea that what these two autocratic governments offer is better than democracy on offer from the West, is an attack on freedom, liberalism and democratic governance unseen in nearly a century. It's too late to do anything about Putin's next moves that will definitely be military as NATO folds it's hand and if Ukraine tries to mount a defense of itself through armed conflict ..... which they will loose in a few days. Putin's on a roll, sanctions be damned.

There may be some deal that emerges that avoids open warfare and sanctions - either or both of which will be costly on multiple levels. But Russia holds the high hand, has the capacity to go all in and all NATO and Ukraine have available at this point is to fold. Continued worthless threats from leaders of NATO countries will just prolong the market and economic disruptions. Hate to say this but given the West's options - basically none - abandoning Zelenski and a democratic Ukraine maybe in some face saving gesture, is going to be way less costly than trying to stop the inevitable by whatever means the West thinks it has available.

Having said that, this should be a fucking wake up call and NATO members better be fully prepared militarily to stop further Russian designs on former Soviet satellite states that are now free and democratic.

[THE_WIZARD_]

....Georgia....Georgia on my mind...

[Dr. Strangelove]

Just broke that Putin has ordered the Russian military into both breakaway provinces on a "peacekeeping mission". That was fast.

Just yesterday morning the Russian ambassador to the US went on one of the morning shows and said there would be no invasion and Russia recognized both as part of Ukraine.

[Obi-Jon]

He hasn't entered yet. Biden should make it publicly clear to Putin - Your hallucinatory rant means nothing - one Russian boot or vehicle into the sovereign territory of Ukraine and the sanctions are on.

[THE_WIZARD_]

Peacekeeping

heh