Miscellaneous And Off Topic Subjects

[hodgkal]

Rob F is exactly right about GR and Kzoo. I know that Kalamazoo County has gained in population in the past decade as have a number of other counties in SW Michigan. Kalamazoo looks worse than GR in the stats above in part because greater Kalamazoo is divided into several separate large municipalities (Portage, Parchment, Oshtemo) in addition to more remote suburban areas in the traditional sense. Sort of like Minneapolis-St. Paul.

Grand Rapids, as I understand it, is more consolidated into a single metropolitan entity which includes near in population centers that do not have separate governance as they do in Kalamazoo County.

That is not to say these West Mich. regions don't have some major problems but they are not basket cases like the eastern part of the state.

[lineygoblue]

The west side of the state has not been as reliant on the auto industry, as the east side has.

When you go thru areas like Detroit, Flint and Saginaw, where GM, Ford and Chrysler have closed plants, those areas are urban desolation. Not only did the companies close the factories, they tore them down. When you drive up I-475 in Flint, where Buick City used to be, its just a big hole in the ground. There were factory buildings there for miles. Now, its just deserted fields. Those areas will never be what they once were. And the people who worked in those factories will never come back. They have no reason to.

So, its no wonder that the population has shifted westward in Michigan. The east side has nothing to draw people in.

[entropy]

what is really sad is people outside the state equate Michigan with Detroit. They are like two different states. It's too bad people can't experience places like Plymouth, Northville, Travers City, Onekama, Grand Haven, Mackinaw, etc.. They'd havea different perspective of the state

[lineygoblue]

That's true, Ent. The Lake Michigan shoreline from Muskegon on north is a huge tourist attraction. The Lake Huron shoreline from Bay City on north, is a very inexpensive, but attractive place to visit. The Mackinac Straits area is some of the most beautiful scenery you'll see in the entire country. Then you have the UP, which still has many pristine areas. The Porcupine Mountains and Lake In The Clouds, Pictured Rocks, etc... are all great areas to visit.

Its too bad that the state relied on the auto industry so much.

[entropy]

I think we'll see more of this "competition" going forward as well..

==============


http://www.pantagraph.com/news/local...cc4c002e0.html

Caterpillar CEO's letter talks of leaving Illinois

SPRINGFIELD -- The chairman and CEO of Peoria-based Caterpillar Inc. is raising the specter of moving the heavy equipment maker out of Illinois.

In a letter sent March 21 to Gov. Pat Quinn, Caterpillar chief executive officer Doug Oberhelman said officials in at least four other states have approached the company about relocating since Illinois raised its income tax in January.
"I want to stay here. But as the leader of this business, I have to do what's right for Caterpillar when making decisions about where to invest," Oberhelman wrote in the letter obtained Friday by the Lee Enterprises Springfield bureau. "The direction that this state is headed in is not favorable to business and I'd like to work with you to change that."

Oberhelman said he's being actively courted to move.

"I have been called, 'cornered' in meetings and 'wined and dined' -- the heat is on," Oberhelman wrote. "Before, I never really considered living anywhere else and certainly never considered the possibility of Caterpillar relocating. But I have to admit, the policymakers in Springfield seem to make it harder by the day."

Cat spokesman Jim Dugan said the letter was designed to show Quinn that Oberhelman wants to be involved in finding solutions that benefit the company, which employs 23,000 people in Illinois.

"I view it as an olive branch to offer our help," Dugan said.

Quinn plans on discussing the letter with Oberhelman April 5 when the two meet at a conference in Peoria. The governor also plans on touring Caterpillar facilities at that time, spokeswoman Brie Callahan said Friday.

"The governor welcomes frank and open exchanges between the business community and government, and we are always open to new ideas that can help our businesses grow, innovate and create jobs," Callahan said.

Oberhelman didn't single out any specific problem with the state's policies in his one-page letter, but Dugan said the recent income tax increase -- signed into law by Quinn in January -- played a significant role in triggering the note.

The tax hike has led to attempts by other states, including Wisconsin, Indiana and New Jersey, to try and poach companies that don't want to stay in the Land of Lincoln.

Oberhelman also sent along correspondence Cat has received from other states.

"I stand ready to help convince you to relocate or expand in the fiscally conservative, low-tax Lone Star State," wrote Texas Gov. Rick Perry in a Jan. 24 letter.

"I encourage you to consider South Dakota as a place for your business to grow and prosper," noted J. Pat Costello, secretary of the South Dakota governor's economic development office.

Nebraska Gov. Dave Heineman wrote in February to say, "In Nebraska, we balance our budget by controlling spending, not by raising taxes."

Republican leaders, who unsuccessfully fought Quinn on the tax hike, say the letter confirms why they were opposed to the increase.

"These are the kinds of letters we fear," said Patty Schuh, spokeswoman for Senate Minority Leader Christine Radogno, R-Lemont. "Even more worrisome are the hundreds of businesses being wooed that we don't know about."

Schuh said the tax hike and the state's worker compensation costs on businesses "make Illinois a hostile environment, prime for the picking."

[entropy]

That's true, Ent. The Lake Michigan shoreline from Muskegon on north is a huge tourist attraction. The Lake Huron shoreline from Bay City on north, is a very inexpensive, but attractive place to visit. The Mackinac Straits area is some of the most beautiful scenery you'll see in the entire country. Then you have the UP, which still has many pristine areas. The Porcupine Mountains and Lake In The Clouds, Pictured Rocks, etc... are all great areas to visit.

Its too bad that the state relied on the auto industry so much.

Even living in KC, I'm still considering buying a vacation home in or around Onekama. I enjoyed spending time on the Platt river and would love for my kids to experience that area growing up.. it is something I never had. It really comes down to travel. Makes more sense to have a second home in southern missouri, but I'm more of a fan of northern/western michigan.

[lineygoblue]

You can't hardly go wrong with vacationing up in the "pinky" area of Michigan. Petoskey, Suttons Bay, Empire, Onekama, ... that entire area up there is as good a vacation spot as there is in the nation. The beaches are as good as anything that Florida or California has, but not as crowded.

[WM Wolverine]

Grand Rapids, as I understand it, is more consolidated into a single metropolitan entity which includes near in population centers that do not have separate governance as they do in Kalamazoo County.


Actually Grand Rapids burbs are even more spread out than Kalamazoo, Kent counties population is ~600k, Grand Rapids even spills in to neighboring Ottawa county.

[Dr. Strangelove]

Metro Detroit as a whole lost people, not just the actual city. So there are more people moving out of the area entirely than there are moving from Detroit city to the burbs.

But yeah Grand Rapids and Kalamazoo are much better positioned and their metro areas showed growth even if the inner city is losing people.

I'll post Ohio's five largest cities here in a sec. One of them is definitely not like the others.

[Dr. Strangelove]

Cleveland
1970 750,903
1980 573,822
1990 505,616
2000 478,403
2010 396,815

Cincinnati
1970 452,524
1980 385,457
1990 364,040
2000 331,825
2010 296,943

Columbus
1970 539,677
1980 564,871
1990 632,910
2000 711,470
2010 787,033

Toledo
1970 383,818
1980 354,635
1990 332,943
2000 313,619
2010 287,208

Akron
1970 275,425
1980 237,177
1990 223,019
2000 217,074
2010 199,110

[Malto Marko]

what is really sad is people outside the state equate Michigan with Detroit. They are like two different states. It's too bad people can't experience places like Plymouth, Northville, Travers City, Onekama, Grand Haven, Mackinaw, etc.. They'd havea different perspective of the state

Couldn't agree more but would like to add Ludington, Manisteee, Escanaba and Marquette to the list.

Us locals have been trying to edjamacate the Left Coasters who have condescending views on the Great State of Michigan.

BTW, I hope you guys (those who migrated from WC) decide to stay here, I really enjoy your banter and intelligent way that you discuss your POV's.

[entropy]

I will be here

[Jamie H]

Ludington rocks as a vacation spot, if you like the beach and beautiful hikes.

[lineygoblue]

BTW, I hope you guys (those who migrated from WC) decide to stay here, I really enjoy your banter and intelligent way that you discuss your POV's.

We have nowhere else to go, Malto. We'll be putting down roots here, and should be here as long as the Lions forum is around. We're glad you've joined in with us.

[Jamie H]

Yeah, now that I understand how the various buttons works, this forum works pretty much just as well as the old one.