Miscellaneous And Off Topic Subjects

[Jeff Buchanan]

Mike - Did Bagram have an airfield, or was it just a military base? I'm wondering because if it had a airfield where planes landed, it makes no sense that we gave it up so easily.

It was a huge US airbase. My old Squadron of EA6Bs flew out of their for years. It was turned over to the Afghans in July without fanfare and reportedly without coordinating with local officials civilian and military.

My view is that Biden was operating under the delusional assumption that the Afghans would allow an orderly evacuation, probably using Bagram and that the Taliban would be part of the Afghan authority that would allow it. I believe that assumption might have been accurate through the very early days of his presidency.

Reportedly, there were direct negotiations with both Ghani's people, the Taliban's Baradar and the Trump administration to facilitate an orderly withdrawal. The distractions of the presidential transition and the likely confusion handing off responsibility of executing whatever plans were made during Trump's presidency and between administrations are playing a large role in this debacle.

It seems to me this isn't about US stupidity or incompetence, though. It's about something completely unexpected happening and there's a good chance that Afghani's in authority that made agreements with their US counterparts on the withdrawal butt-fucked them and planned to do that all along. All kinds of benefits to be gained by the Taliban on signing agreements on paper with Ghani's administration and the Americans then completely ignoring them once the withdrawal was underway. Perfect timing for the Taliban to make their move with a US logistics plan in place with a time table based on delusional assumptions. You don't just flip a switch on a massive logistics plan like that ...... would not surprise me if Ghani and his generals were complicit and played a role in his Army's laying down of arms before the Taliban.

I would not doubt for one minute that various Afghani principals - tribal chieftains if you will - came to gather with the Taliban and Ghani's people, like they did in getting rid of the British in the 1800s and the Soviets after that to rid the country of foreign interference. It's what they do and it's probably what they did this time around to the US. Brilliant actually. The big prize though is the utter humiliation of the US and the folly of pursuing it's FP of primacy especially in the ME and especially over Islam.

If strategically hitting the US to show it's vulnerabilities, striking at the core of American democratic governance, was the goal of a coalition of radical Islamists, like 911 was, score those fuckers another victory.

[Dr. Strangelove]

Bagram Air Field (BAF) is a sprawling complex about 30 miles north of Kabul. It was the base of our operations for the entire 20 years we were in Afghanistan. At one point I believe there were upwards of 20-30,000 coalition forces stationed there. It was basically turned into a full blown military base/post. We built an additional runway that could handle 747s and C-5 Globemasters. President's Bush, Obama, and Trump all traveled to Bagram on Air Force One. It was a very secure air base.

The fact that we just walked out in the middle of the night and essentially surrendered the most strategic air base in the country at a time when we planned on leaving is just crack-smoking stupid. It really defies any common sense. Just unconscionable. It would have been astronomically easier to evacuate from Bagram both in terms of getting our people there, securing the area around the airport, and housing and feeding the evacuees. Instead we have this fucking circus in Kabul.

I still can't wrap my head around how this is playing out. It is 95% a self-made disaster. Biden is abhorrent. He's senile. He can't think his way out of a wet paper sack. He is a danger to the free world. If I lived in Taiwan, I'd be developing my exit strategy NOW.

This is where I don't know which is worse: if Biden made the decision alone to shut the base before the evacuation (and everyone kept their head down and followed orders) or if a bunch of the people at the Pentagon suggested doing it.

And it also goes back again to the question of whether Biden and many of his top advisors delusionally believed the Afghan army would really hold out for at least a year and they had plenty of time to slowly evacuate the civilians.

[Dr. Strangelove]

It tells you something that despite the fact Ghani has spent a lot of his life in the United States, we didn't grant him asylum here. He obviously pissed off a lot of his regional commanders, who chose paydays over fighting, and he probably pissed off a lot of people in DC by the way he fled. This after we practically annointed him President twice -- both of his elections were rife with fraud by all accounts.

[lineygoblue]

It was basically turned into a full blown military base/post. We built an additional runway that could handle 747s and C-5 Globemasters.

This is the reason for my question. Seems to me that if you are planning to leave a country, that you'd want to secure multiple exit points that are well within your control, and get your people into or at least near those exit points.

The day Biden put up his hand, this became his problem. Blaming his predecessors is not responsible leadership. And blaming all his predecessors is flawed, because he was a key adviser during the 8 year Obama presidency, so if he blames previous administrations for the mess left behind, he's blaming himself as well. When he made the final decision to leave, and actually set a date, he did one of the worst things he could possibly do. He set a date. Setting a date gives your opposition the keys to the car.

I think the US withdrawal should have been disguised as a troop rotation handled primarily thru Baghram. The US could have announced that "early troop rotations" have begun, and replacements will be flying in to give an early relief to soldiers who have been in country for "X" number of months or more. Then, as the planes fly in, you "unload" the empty planes in an area that cannot be seen by the public, and you load the planes down with people who are leaving.

But what do I know ...

[THE_WIZARD_]

Trusting terrorists is a special kind of stupid...

[Mike]

Trusting terrorists is a special kind of stupid...

And boxing yourself in to the point you need help from the terrorists you’ve been fighting for 20 years is an unprecedented humiliation.

[AlabamAlum]

Some of you act like it’s a shock that Biden would be a shitty President. Stop it. Everyone knew it except for the Biden Bros. And you know whose fault it is that Sleepy Joe sits behind the Resolute Desk? Trump’s. If DJT had a bit more politesse and savvy, his opponent’s base would have stayed sleepy along with its leader. Now, who would be a better president? Sleepy Joe or the Orange Idiot? I have no idea, but it makes me sad that this is the best that America has to chose from and it seems like I say that every election. The thing I’m most concerned about with Joe is that he opened the floodgates to the southern border.

This Afghani turd is just the icing.

Bah.

[THE_WIZARD_]

shaddup

[iam416]

The thing I’m most concerned about with Joe is him opening the floodgates to the southern border.

I mean, we're kinda of already there.

[Tom W]

it's pretty hard to argue with any of that. When your winning move is "I'm not him", the blame falls pretty evenly across the board.

[Dr. Strangelove]

Trump and Biden pulled the band-aid off. It was never going to be pretty. Biden added his own stupid decisions to those made by his predecessors. But I give them credit for actually pulling off the band-aid instead of kicking the can down the road for the next guy to deal with. That's why I fault them less than Bush & Obama, liney.

This became a failure the moment Dubya decided the goal should be to build a pro-American democracy instead of just killing Bin Laden and eliminating Al Qaeda.

[iam416]

Re Kissinger's piece, the obvious and important observation he makes is that our foreign policy -- especially in fighting against prolong insurgencies -- is hamstrung by politics. I think there's a strong case to be made that our foreign policy in general is hamstrung by politics. It's difficult to have a coherent foreign policy when everything DJT does or Chairman Big Rig does is BAD!!!! That means you can't do the same thing. That means you have to reverse some obviously sensible policies.

Now, Chairman Big Rig's execution in Afghanistan is sheer poo. The Rs don't even need to play politics with it -- it's a borderline consensus disaster. But, on the whole, foreign policy is a political tool, not a coherent national approach. Sadly.

[iam416]

Trump and Biden pulled the band-aid off. It was never going to be pretty. Biden added his own stupid decisions to those made by his predecessors. But I give them credit for actually pulling off the band-aid instead of kicking the can down the road for the next guy to deal with. That's why I fault them less than Bush & Obama, liney.

This became a failure the moment Dubya decided the goal should be to build a pro-American democracy instead of just killing Bin Laden and eliminating Al Qaeda.

That was Obama's failure. He was in the office when they killed Bin Laden. He did nothing.

And JFC, in another week you'll be singing the praises of Chairman Big Rig's bold actions! It's fucking shameful at this point.

[AlabamAlum]

Hey, at least we’re printing more money. That’s a good thing, right?

[Dr. Strangelove]

Someone has to balance the scales here.

Without me this forum would be an endless circle jerk of agreement. You're the old men who gather at McDonalds every morning at 6:30 to bitch and moan and completely agree with each other that the world sucks and that bitter, angry, old, white men are the world's only hope.

You fucking owe me for keeping it interesting. I bring the median age down from 78 to a spry 73.

You're welcome. Now I'm going to sit back and let the thanks roll in.