Miscellaneous And Off Topic Subjects

[lineygoblue]

Eh. Fuck 'em. No more nation building, and no more propping up armies that won't fight for themselves.

I'm reluctantly coming to that POV. If the people who live there aren't willing to stand up for themselves, like our founding fathers did, then maybe they are not hungry enough for freedom yet. I just feel badly for those who helped us, who will now be executed. A lot of Afghani's helped us get Bin Laden, but if any of them are still around, they'll be dead soon.

I am opposed to committing US troops to any military action where there is no final victory objective. No more police actions.

[lineygoblue]

Bush, Obama, Trump, and Biden all played a role in today's events. Honestly, Bush/Obama are more responsible here than Trump/Biden.

I can't really disagree with this.

Given this week's events, it now appears that the best action would have been to leave Afghanistan right after Bin Laden was killed.

[Cody_Russell]

Let me rephrase ... I'm upset at the government at whole for the last 20 years. Won't specifically blame Biden. Trump wanted to withdraw troops too, but was talked out of it. Sure the mainstream media reaction would be different, but that's a different discussion.

$2 trillion + over 20 years.
2,300+ US soldiers lost.

It's a complete failure. Vietnam, Afghan... learn your lesson.

[CGVT]

We laughed at the Soviets when they were getting their asses kicked in Afghanistan for 20 years and then turned around and did the same damn thing.

what the hell did we expect?

Jesus.

[THE_WIZARD_]

...well when the next 9/11 happens and the groups responsible are housed and trained in Afghanistan...what will we do? They will be ramping up at warp speed for the remainder of Dementia Joe's term as he sleeps in his DC bunker...

[Mike]

Eh. Fuck 'em. No more nation building, and no more propping up armies that won't fight for themselves.

I’m on vacation but will comment on this in the coming days. Having spent about 2 years of my life in Afghanistan between Jan 2003 and April 2006, I’m shocked it took the Taliban 10 whole days to overtake the country.

[Tom W]

what the hell did we expect?

Jesus.

We expected them to play nice.

We’ve become so full of self loathing that we’ve come to think that nobody could possibly worse than us.

Or maybe just got some really stupid people calling the shots.

[iam416]

I think DSL provided quotes as to what Chairman Big Rig expected. I know what I expected. One of us was right.

[lineygoblue]

I'm surprised that anyone is surprised by what the Taliban is doing.

[Hannibal]

Bush, Obama, Trump, and Biden all played a role in today's events. Honestly, Bush/Obama are more responsible here than Trump/Biden.

Bush is #1 responsible. He took the nation building approach. Obama continued it. Trump basically continued it.

IMHO this goes beyond just Afghanistan. One of the reasons why I liked Trump early on was his insistence on making other countries pay for our defense of their nations. We are the shield for so many countries it's ridiculous. This is a lingering habit that we have that is a leftover from the Cold War. It was the right strategy for the Cold War, but it's the wrong strategy now.

And it earns us no goodwill abroad. I'm so damn sick and tired of hearing about how inhumane our foreign policy is. We're not an imperialist nation. I think that it was Colin Powell who said that the only land that we ask for from foreign countries is space to bury our dead. And I don't think that we ask for even that.

It's time to quit and to give our nation's critics what they have asked for. No more American "imperialism". No more intervention. Let humanity run its course. Let our harsh critics fend for themselves for a change. That includes all of the unappreciative assholes in Western Europe who smugly boast about their social programs that we helped make possible by devoting a huge portion of our economy to defending them from the USSR.

[Hannibal]

I’m on vacation but will comment on this in the coming days. Having spent about 2 years of my life in Afghanistan between Jan 2003 and April 2006, I’m shocked it took the Taliban 10 whole days to overtake the country.

I'm interested in hearing your perspective.

I've never been there, but the people who I have heard talk about the situation say that our efforts there to build a defense force were completely worthless. It reminds me of what I have always read about the army of South Vietnam.

[iam416]

I'm actually a little surprised at what a ginormous debacle the Afghanistan withdrawal has been. As Charles Cooke points out -- you can certainly be in favor of withdrawal AND be in favor something bordering competent withdrawal. https://www.nationalreview.com/corne...utm_term=third

This is a disaster of a withdrawal. Shit, man, even CNN is calling out (noting, e.g., that in Afghanistan this is "fighting season" -- if you had waited a few more months until winter then the advance isn't so rapid -- maybe). But, setting that aside, why on earth do we have people hunkered down in Kabul in, quite literally, a life and death situation. Why on earth didn't we get people out BEFORE we removed their protection?

It's a fucking debacle.

Bush is #1 responsible. He took the nation building approach. Obama continued it. Trump basically continued it.

The nation-building approach was silly. But, Obama had a perfect opportunity to transform that mission and get out. Our original purpose for going into Afghanistan was to dismantle Al-Q and the government that aided them. We did that. And we officially tied that off when the US killed OBL. At that point -- or some time shortly thereafter -- it's perfectly fine to say "we accomplished our #1 goal; we've given this shitbird gov't 10 years to stand on its own; we're pulling out." So, I have it a 1a and 1b.

[Da Geezer]

One of the similarities between Vietnam and Afghanistan was that the "national army" viewed enlistment as a jobs program in each case. Neither army had the will to fight after the generous Yankees left. The idea that we can field a "well-equipped army of 300,000" in these shithole countries has been shown to be nonsense.

[Dr. Strangelove]

Bush and Obama are the most at fault for not wrapping things up sooner when both had the opportunity to do so.

Biden has fucked up the final withdrawal. It would be justifiable to fire whomever convinced him that the Afghan army could hold out for a significant time longer. And I think he honestly believed it because I can't imagine he'd make himself look like a damn fool deliberately.

The hand-wringing over the military equipment is exaggerated though unless we're talking about stuff we ourselves left behind at bases. But I far as I understand that's NOT what's being talked about. Does anyone actually expect that we'd ask the Afghan military to please return all equipment we had given them over the past 20 years? We want all our guns back, but we'll be rooting for you. I'm guessing a bunch of shit has already gone "missing" and been sold to Iran or China over the years. I'm not sure we'd hand over a top secret piece of equipment to Abdullah Abdullah of Herat in the first place.

[THE_WIZARD_]

I say we send Rambo in...