Miscellaneous And Off Topic Subjects

[iam416]

There's a general agreement about getting out of Afghanistan. I don't particularly blame Chairman Big Rig for that other than to note his ludicrous assertions that the Afghan Army will hold strong or that the Taliban has to be concerned about international recognition.

This was always going to tbe outcome if we left and the question always was whether keeping a small force there was worth it. But, it's pretty much beyond debate that we HAD to keep a small force there indefinitely -- like, forever -- to keep that government in power.

I feel really bad for Afghans who worked with the US in any way. They're dead as fried chicken. I can't even really imagine how terrified they are -- hunkered down in Kabul hoping to christ the shitbag government forces can hold on.

[Dr. Strangelove]

5 Ohio congressional districts (out of 16) lost population, all in the northern half of the state or in Appalachia. Bill Johnson's 6th district lost the most at nearly 5%

Overall though the state did better than the 2010 census. Even though Cleveland itself lost 25,000 people, the Cleveland metro area supposedly grew a little. More counties overall gained people than the last census, with the biggest gains around Columbus

https://www.cincinnati.com/story/news/politics/elections/2021/08/12/see-which-ohio-congressional-districts-lost-population-and-which-ones-grew/8112238002/

[iam416]

Ohio BARELY lost a district which is surprising. The growth of Columbus (mostly at the expense of NEO) is keeping the state afloat.

[Jeff Buchanan]

Biden's withdrawal order was about one administration too late. Hanni's narrative on US FP resonates with me. Tom's response on the suckers our administrations have been and continue to be is spot on.

State is notoriously slow to adapt FP to emerging facts on the ground and the excellent intel available to these clowns to shape it. We are plagued by a Sate Department full of career bureaucrats invested in stale information. What the president gets from them in his role as the sole articulator of US FP has been woefully antiquated.

[lineygoblue]

I feel really bad for Afghans who worked with the US in any way. They're dead as fried chicken. I can't even really imagine how terrified they are -- hunkered down in Kabul hoping to christ the shitbag government forces can hold on.

This is what bothers me the most. Afghans who worked with us are now going to be flushed out and executed. Previous US administrations promised them that they would not leave them defenseless, but here we are. Its sad to see yet another conflict where the US had no end game to win, and has effectively surrendered.

US troops should not be deployed into any situation unless the final objective is a victory. Police actions and other interventions where our guys provide target practice for the enemy need to end.

[Dr. Strangelove]

Ohio BARELY lost a district which is surprising. The growth of Columbus (mostly at the expense of NEO) is keeping the state afloat.

Yeah Columbus area had strong growth. Most of the Cincinnati area had good growth too and beat estimates. Montgomery County surprisingly ticked up.

I'd be curious what the rural/urban/suburban split is today in Ohio versus the 2010 numbers. Because most (not all but most) rural counties lost people, with significant losses in Appalachia. One reason the Republicans do so well here compared to, say, Illinois, is that rural Ohio isn't vastly outnumbered by the cities the way the Chicago area dominates that state.

Speaking of surprises and Chicago, they actually gained 50,000 people. And every county in the Chicago metro area went up. Nearly every single other county in Illinois outside Chicagoland went DOWN.

[Jeff Buchanan]

On a "free will" decision on vaccinations.........Just TBC from the outset, a free will decision requires the conditions of “ability to do otherwise”, “control” and “responsiveness to reasons.” The last condition in this context (get vaccinated or don't) involves the question of moral responsibility.

I don't think when it comes to attempts to achieve some public good, in this case control of an infectious disease, the question of moral responsibility to act is particularly clear. The question becomes for Americans that have a "free will" decision over vaccination, is it morally responsible to refuse one even though the causal relationship between disease spread, in this case, SARS2, is clear? The more people that get vaccinated the more likely it is that SARS2 can be contained. This is a very difficult hypothesis to reject.

As well, the vaccines are safe given billions of doses of the current ones against SARS2 administered with the number of adverse reactions about the same as all vaccines in the history of them. This too is a difficult hypothesis to reject if one is being reasonable about outlier adverse reactions.

The point is I don't think getting vaccinated or not is a completely free will decision in the absence of considering the question of moral responsibility and responsiveness to reasons. I also don't think the decision is as black and white as those that have chosen not to get vaccinated and those that have as those on either side of this question try to make it.

[Kapture1]

On a "free will" decision on vaccinations.........Just TBC from the outset, a free will decision requires the conditions of “ability to do otherwise”, “control” and “responsiveness to reasons.” The last condition in this context (get vaccinated or don't) involves the question of moral responsibility.

I don't think when it comes to attempts to achieve some public good, in this case control of an infectious disease, the question of moral responsibility to act is particularly clear. The question becomes for Americans that have a "free will" decision over vaccination, is it morally responsible to refuse one even though the causal relationship between disease spread, in this case, SARS2, is clear? The more people that get vaccinated the more likely it is that SARS2 can be contained. This is a very difficult hypothesis to reject.

As well, the vaccines are safe given billions of doses of the current ones against SARS2 administered with the number of adverse reactions about the same as all vaccines in the history of them. This too is a difficult hypothesis to reject if one is being reasonable about outlier adverse reactions.

The point is I don't think getting vaccinated or not is a completely free will decision in the absence of considering the question of moral responsibility and responsiveness to reasons. I also don't think the decision is as black and white as those that have chosen not to get vaccinated and those that have as those on either side of this question try to make it.

It is moral to force a free individual to inject an experimental vaccine with no long term studies on it's effects, manufactured by a major pharmaceutical company with no product liability, or else they lose their basic, fundamental human rights?

[Jeff Buchanan]

It is moral to force a free individual to inject an experimental vaccine with no long term studies on it's effects, manufactured by a major pharmaceutical company with no product liability, or else they lose their basic, fundamental human rights?

I think that question, if I understand it correctly as you phrased it, is appropriately considered in the conversation on vaccination choice. Worth mentioning that philosophers have a tough time agreeing on absolute arguments on "free will" questions like this: Is it amoral to reject an action involving the public good when taking that action itself involves the potential for adverse outcomes.

[Hannibal]

I'm a little surprised that Ohio lost population, since population usually follows prosperity, and Ohio was a pretty prosperous state in the Twenty Teens.

[Dr. Strangelove]

I'm a little surprised that Ohio lost population, since population usually follows prosperity, and Ohio was a pretty prosperous state in the Twenty Teens.

We didn't lose population...the state gained around 250,000 people. But that wasn't enough to keep pace with the national average so we're losing a congressional district

EDIT: Only three states actually lost population since 2010: West Virginia, Illinois, and Mississippi

[iam416]

Yeah Columbus area had strong growth. Most of the Cincinnati area had good growth too and beat estimates. Montgomery County surprisingly ticked up.

I'd be curious what the rural/urban/suburban split is today in Ohio versus the 2010 numbers. Because most (not all but most) rural counties lost people, with significant losses in Appalachia. One reason the Republicans do so well here compared to, say, Illinois, is that rural Ohio isn't vastly outnumbered by the cities the way the Chicago area dominates that state.

Speaking of surprises and Chicago, they actually gained 50,000 people. And every county in the Chicago metro area went up. Nearly every single other county in Illinois outside Chicagoland went DOWN.

The reason Rs do well in Ohio is because they don't get absolutely annhilated in urban centers. If the entire state voted the way Cleveland does, then the Ds would win. But, Columbus and the metro, while definitely D, isn't a total rout. And Cincinnati is actually about 50/50. And the Rs DO rout the Ds in rural Ohio.

[Kapture1]

Pulling my kids out of Genesee County school district. Going to have to home school until the county drops their anti science, tyrannical face diaper mandate for children in schools.

[lineygoblue]

Pulling my kids out of Genesee County school district. Going to have to home school until the county drops their anti science, tyrannical face diaper mandate for children in schools.

If my kids were still school age, I wouldn't even think of sending them to public school right now. There are plenty of online home school courses available, and that's what I'd be doing. I'd plan on it being a permanent decision until the school system returns to sanity.

[Kapture1]

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