Miscellaneous And Off Topic Subjects

[Hannibal]

I believe that most employment law has held that employers can request proof of vaccinations. I know in most hospitals staff have to show proof of MMR, TDAP, HepB, ect, vaccines as a condition of employment.

For hopsitals and doctors' offices, it makes a lot of sense. I'm not so sure about a regular office or an assembly line though. If you are an employer like Tyson, it's tough to make the case that you have a vested interest in knowing somebody's vaccination status when you have a better chance of getting killed in a car crash on the way to work than you do dying from Covid-19. If you are in the work force and you do not meet a set of known conditions, you likely fit that descriptions.

[AlabamAlum]

For hopsitals and doctors' offices, it makes a lot of sense. I'm not so sure about a regular office or an assembly line though. If you are an employer like Tyson, it's tough to make the case that you have a vested interest in knowing somebody's vaccination status when you have a better chance of getting killed in a car crash on the way to work than you do dying from Covid-19. If you are in the work force and you do not meet a set of known conditions, you likely fit that descriptions.

While individual CFR may only be 1.8% or whatever, I don’t think they will look at it that way. I believe that deference would be given to employers attempting to lessen infectious disease spread in a population-dense food prep line- especially in light of the incidents Tyson had with closing plants earlier this year.

Are there states that forbid employers from obtaining vaccination proof as a condition of employment? Because the basic theme - especially with At-Will states - is unless it’s specifically protected, we can not hire you -or fire you- for just about anything we chose.

Employees part of a union and with a collective bargaining agreement may not apply. But even with that, I don’t think many courts or mediation/arbitration proceedings would be overly sympathetic to them. JMO/YMMV.

Just my opinion.

[Hannibal]

While individual CFR may only be 1.8% or whatever, I don’t think they will look at it that way. I believe that deference would be given to employers attempting to lessen infectious disease spread in a population-dense food prep line- especially in light of the incidents Tyson had with closing plants earlier this year.

Are there states that forbid employers from obtaining vaccination proof as a condition of employment? Because the basic theme - especially with At-Will states - is unless it’s specifically protected, we can not hire you -or fire you- for just about anything we chose.

Employees part of a union and with a collective bargaining agreement may not apply. But even with that, I don’t think many courts or mediation/arbitration proceedings would be overly sympathetic to them. JMO/YMMV.

Just my opinion.

You might be right.

FWIW, it's not a hill that I'm willing to die on. If my employer asks me for proof of vaccination, I'm going to go along with it.

[Kapture1]

You might be right.

FWIW, it's not a hill that I'm willing to die on. If my employer asks me for proof of vaccination, I'm going to go along with it.

This is the exact hill to die on. but, that's my opinion.

[CGVT]

Happy Coast Guard Day, bitches.

Recovering the small boat on Cutter Mako after a boarding of a scallop boat somewhere off the coast of New Jersey. Summer 2009

[THE_WIZARD_]

Sure glad our forefathers didn't just "go with the flow when it came to tyranny...

[lineygoblue]

And now, for your reading pleasure, the upbeat Covid story of the day, ..Newsweek gives their contribution to the cause:

https://www.newsweek.com/2021/08/13/doomsday-covid-variant-worse-delta-lambda-may-coming-scientists-say-1615874.html

[Mike]

How’s this for doomsday?

Every one of you people will die. Happy Wednesday!

[Jeff Buchanan]

And now, for your reading pleasure, the upbeat Covid story of the day, ..Newsweek gives their contribution to the cause:

https://www.newsweek.com/2021/08/13/...y-1615874.html

I remain aboard the world's safest travel and leisure venue but I'm still keeping up. The Newsweek article is pretty good and has the technical detail that makes it something other than fear monkey BS. But, I posted about this maybe a month ago, the structural limits of the spike protein make continued mutation less likely ......

Fortunately, there's a built-in impediment to what might otherwise be a potentially endless march toward ever-more-dangerous variants: The virus will at some point run out of ways to become nastier, thanks to the relatively simple structure of the spike protein, which can only be mutated in a few hundred different ways, most of which won't make the virus more harmful. "There are only so many changes that can be made to the spike protein without making it non-functional," says Vail. "I'd be cautious about saying that it can keep mutating indefinitely."

Of course this is within the last paragraph of this very detailed report after you've had the shit scared out of you.

[Kapture1]

Sure glad our forefathers didn't just "go with the flow when it came to tyranny...

right?! They had some balls.

Perhaps the Right can stop wondering how a tiny minority of communists have overtaken every single one of our cultural institutions.... it's because they are weak. They can not locate their spine.

[Dr. Strangelove]

The story has been repeated numerous times during the pandemic, but while at Valley Forge, George Washington had all his men get inoculated against smallpox whether they liked it or not.

Within weeks the FDA is going to give full, non-emergency approval to at least one of the vaccines (Pfizer first most likely) at which point the insincere argument about it being "experimental" and "dangerous" completely goes out the window.

What's ridiculous is that the people insisting that the vaccines are unproven are the same crowd that hyped up hydroxychloroquine. The vaccines have a mountain of evidence supporting their use compared with hydroxy

[AlabamAlum]

Wiz,

I’m a bit of a little L libertarian. But it’s hard for me to look at this as tyranny until the government mandates vaccination and rounds you up and forces it on you. That’s different than what a business owner requires. Right now employers have the right to require it or not. Businesses have a lot of freedom in who they hire or don’t hire and vaccination is the same thing. And you have the right to tell the company to “fuck off” and go someplace else. Same, if you don’t like the other vaccines they may mandate, what attire they have workers wear, the hours they have you work, or any other employee-based regulations. Employers have long enjoyed a lot of latitude except for the federal protections of race, gender, age, religion…seems like I am forgetting one and too lazy to look it up.

What will be interesting is if they mandate the vaccine for the military. They already mandate a number of them for troops if I understand correctly. There is some history to it, too. George Washington mandated smallpox inoculation to his troops back during the Revolutionary War.

A more blurred line is state-ran schools mandating it. I know some have already done just that. And I’m sure the first court case is in the process as we speak. I have no idea if there is case law for that, but I would assume so with all the immunizations schools require and have going back to polio vaccines and measles, mumps, and rubella shots that I had as a child.

Interesting times.

[Hannibal]

Wiz,

I’m a bit of a little L libertarian. But it’s hard for me to look at this as tyranny until the government mandates vaccination and rounds you up and forces it on you. That’s different than what a business owner requires. Right now employers have the right to require it or not. Businesses have a lot of freedom in who they hire or don’t hire and vaccination is the same thing. And you have the right to tell the company to “fuck off” and go someplace else. Same, if you don’t like the other vaccines they may mandate, what attire they have workers wear, the hours they have you work, or any other employee-based regulations. Employers have long enjoyed a lot of latitude except for the federal protections of race, gender, age, religion…seems like I am forgetting one and too lazy to look it up.

What will be interesting is if they mandate the vaccine for the military. They already mandate a number of them for troops if I understand correctly. There is some history to it, too. George Washington mandated smallpox inoculation to his troops back during the Revolutionary War.

A more blurred line is state-ran schools mandating it. I know some have already done just that. And I’m sure the first court case is in the process as we speak. I have no idea if there is case law for that, but I would assume so with all the immunizations schools require and have going back to polio vaccines and measles, mumps, and rubella shots that I had as a child.

Interesting times.

There are some complications to this argument though.

The first is that major employers largely follow CDC guidelines and do not come to pandemic-related decisions independently. And they do this largely to avoid lawsuit risk. The free market mechanics are hazy. There isn't a market for your labor if every employer does the same thing because they are all listening to the same government source.

The other complication is that your employer has gazillions of other restrictions on things that they can and can't ask you or force you to do. Things that are legitimate financial interests for them. They can't ask a woman if she's pregnant when she is interviewing for a job. They can't go into your psychiatric history and see if you are telling your therapist that you fantasize about bringing a gun to work and shooting up the place. Point being, we have already trashed the free market when it comes to employer-employee relationships. Why does the Libertarian argument suddenly make sense?

[Hannibal]

This is the exact hill to die on. but, that's my opinion.

I disagree. There are worse and bigger issues looming. CRT is one of them.

[CGVT]

Wiz,

I’m a bit of a little L libertarian. But it’s hard for me to look at this as tyranny until the government mandates vaccination and rounds you up and forces it on you. That’s different than what a business owner requires. Right now employers have the right to require it or not. Businesses have a lot of freedom in who they hire or don’t hire and vaccination is the same thing. And you have the right to tell the company to “fuck off” and go someplace else. Same, if you don’t like the other vaccines they may mandate, what attire they have workers wear, the hours they have you work, or any other employee-based regulations. Employers have long enjoyed a lot of latitude except for the federal protections of race, gender, age, religion…seems like I am forgetting one and too lazy to look it up.

What will be interesting is if they mandate the vaccine for the military. They already mandate a number of them for troops if I understand correctly. There is some history to it, too. George Washington mandated smallpox inoculation to his troops back during the Revolutionary War.

A more blurred line is state-ran schools mandating it. I know some have already done just that. And I’m sure the first court case is in the process as we speak. I have no idea if there is case law for that, but I would assume so with all the immunizations schools require and have going back to polio vaccines and measles, mumps, and rubella shots that I had as a child.

Interesting times.

Exactly. Tyson makes shot mandatory for employment? Don't want to get vaccinated? Go work someplace else.

Your body, your choice. You are free to choose not to work for a place that requires vaccination.

I'm pretty sure that if you refuse to get a TB test, you can't work in food service.

BTW, if you are military and refuse a flu vaccine, step right this way. Your discharge papers await.