Miscellaneous And Off Topic Subjects

[CGVT]

I would vote for Bernie, but he won't be on the ballot. I may write him in, because Alabama is so red that anybody with an R by his name will carry the state by a long shot and my vote will be a waste regardless.

I have to say living in a state that is ruled by the church and judgmental pricks has really changed my political slant (managing a food bank warehouse helped a bit, too)

[Mike]

In theory that is all good, but the bottom line is I don't agree much with Gary Johnson, Trump is a buffoon and disaster and as much as I dislike Clinton, I see her as the best option right now.

My hope was a contested convention with Trump getting passed over and then running as an independent. Hopefully that would have blown the Republican party up and get it out of the hands of the Christian Taliban and the Tea Party jackasses so they would lose the Cruz and Palin types, bring some common sense to the table, and make it a viable option again.

Maybe Trump being the nominee will do that. Who knows?

I share your sentiment. A realistic alternative to the HillTron 4000 would have been nice. Now I have to vote for her/it and then crawl into a hole for 4 years. It's amazing to me that there is a huge untapped political center that neither party appeals to. The problem with 3rd party candidates is that they are too often on the fringes of the R/D duopoly and not a centrist/common sense position.

[CGVT]

I share your sentiment. A realistic alternative to the HillTron 4000 would have been nice. Now I have to vote for her/it and then crawl into a hole for 4 years. It's amazing to me that there is a huge untapped political center that neither party appeals to. The problem with 3rd party candidates is that they are too often on the fringes of the R/D duopoly and not a centrist/common sense position.

Exactly

[Mike]

Enough is enough! Trump supporter finally stands up for the cause and does god's work in NC.

Tow truck driver refuses to help disabled woman stranded on a busy highway after he spots her Bernie Sanders bumper sticker.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3575069/Tow-truck-driver-refuses-help-disabled-woman-stranded-busy-highway-spots-Bernie-Sanders-bumper-sticker.html?ITO=applenews

[iam416]

The problem with 3rd party candidates is that they are too often on the fringes of the R/D duopoly and not a centrist/common sense position.

Isn't that because the Rs and Ds jointly occupy almost all of the "centrist" ground? I mean, we could go through a ton of issues but by and large the Rs and Ds are roughly in the middle fighting to a 50/50 issue to something like 60/40 on the continuum of outcomes.

There's no oxygen for a "centrist" 3rd party. What's more, there's no energy for a "centrist" 3rd party. Nobody gets motivated by centrist positions -- they get motivated by activist/extreme positions.

[entropy]

IMO, both parties shifted from attracting voters to rallying their base after Bill Clinton’s second term. This meant getting more of your party energized to vote compared to your opposition.. and basically not building bridges. One of the more effective way to rally a group is moral superiority. Both parties have engaged in this approach. Labeling the opposition as racists, wanting to steal the money you earn, sexists, taking away your religious freedoms… all these create that energy. They create fear. They create a sense of good vs evil. What debate is needed if the opposition is morally wrong? Understanding the point of view of someone is not rewarded. Understanding someone’s experiences and how that shaped their views is considered weak. Demonize and you can dismiss. Hence, more and more politicians (state and federal) are elected based upon this energy rather than results. Think about illegal immigration. Do you hear real discussion on how to address or name calling and grand standing? I doubt the real answers would be that far apart, but the impression given is night and day. I also think this is why such a large % of people do not vote (something like 40% or so). With the 2 party system and candidates who are not rewarded for building bridges, many are left voting for lesser of two evils or not voting at all. Middle Left and Middle Right don't have a candidate. And I don't see that changing without a third party

[CGVT]

There's no oxygen for a "centrist" 3rd party. What's more, there's no energy for a "centrist" 3rd party. Nobody gets motivated by centrist positions -- they get motivated by activist/extreme positions.

At a 1-2% clip

[hack]

IMO at this point the spot on the left-right spectrum that a candidate or policy proposal lands on is less important than the environment in which it is debated, voted on, and implemented. The process now works for money, but it does not work for people. IMO it's time to hit the pause button on the left-right spectrum and focus on restoring the process as it was envisioned - get money out of politics, and blow up defense contracting. I think on those issues we find agreement at both extremes. People like Sanders and Johnson have overlap in these areas.

IMO we need Larry Lessig. He's shrunk his agenda to getting money out of politics, first and foremost, to the greatest extent possible. Legislative and regulatory outcomes cannot be for sale. I think in a hypothetical world anything Bernie would do or Johnson would do would be be much more impactful only after the Lessig agenda is accomplished. Put those guys in now and you'll get minimal impact.

[entropy]

http://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2016-04-22/hillary-clintons-democratic-party-is-a-far-cry-from-bill-clintons

The changing of the Democratic party..

[iam416]

"Build bridges" ... "get money out of politics" ...

This country has always been remarkably partisan. Well, heh, save for, perhaps, the Era of Good Feelings. If the country is split not much is going to get done. That's the way it's always been.

"Get money out of politics" is nice little platitude that requires amending the Constitution first and then passing legislation. It is, in other words, not an feasible answer either.

But they both sound nice. I'm also for "respectful negotiation" and "independent, thoughtful bi-partisan legislation" along with all the other things we wish we had in a perfect government.

[hack]

HILLTRON MOVE LEFT HILLTRON MOVE LEFT

[Wild Hoss]

We don?t need to create a Centrist Party, as if it were even possible.

What we need is a change in what already exists; the Left and Right fringes to break off the GOP and Democratic Party, leaving behind more rational Center Right and Center Left entities who can nominate more "normal" candidates and aren't pulled so far apart that they cannot function together. Structurally speaking, you can already see the fault lines.

[Ghengis Jon]

Stop making sense. You'll never have a future in politics.

[iam416]

Middle Left and Middle Right don't have a candidate.

Yeah, ummm, boy....I think Hillary is dead Middle Left. She's had to tack a bit toward the nutjob end of her party, but she's still firmly Middle Left. If she's not, then who is?

And shit, Trump is arguably middle-middle. He's way right on some shit and middle left on others. He pretty much doesn't have a social conservative bone in his body -- which is why his abortion answers are such a trainwreck (IMO).

You have two candidates who are not extremists. They're just bad candidates. You can complain all day long about that. But it's not like it's Sanders vs Rand Paul or even Lying Ted Cruz (heh).

[hack]

Money has moved into politics to a greater extent without constitutional change, so iIt can be moved out to an extent without constitutional change.

But, in the end, I agree. It's not happening. The forces that would have to align to get anybody to notice that you can't have good policy outcomes from a bad process? That'll never happen. Even if something marshalls everyone's attention for a period, it won't be for long enough to see it through. Money knows how to take a loss at the legislative level and get its way at the regulatory level, i.e. with Dodd/Frank. There are some great ideas in there and other countries are implementing them much faster than the US because of the extent to which money is now in politics here.

I think that once you get past a certain number of holes you just can't keep plugging them. You have to blow it up and start fresh.