Miscellaneous And Off Topic Subjects

[iam416]

A quick reminder that the real problem that the Left has isn't with the police shooting unarmed people. It's with the police shooting black people

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I have yet to see a higjhly publicized race story in which the initial details that came out didn’t leave out a major piece of the story.

Correct.

[Hannibal]

(b). A correctly worn mask does inhibit droplet spread.

Then how come after over a year, the data for mask mandate states versus states with no mask mandates does not show this? Shouldn't it be obvious by now? How come Texas and Florida haven't seen the case spikes that everyone (including the CDC) predicted when they removed their mask mandates?

There are a lot of academic papers that dispute the efficacy of masks to prevent the spread of viruses. Many of them came out before the issue was politicized. Here is one that came out recently.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7680614/

Many countries across the globe utilized medical and non-medical facemasks as non-pharmaceutical intervention for reducing the transmission and infectivity of coronavirus disease-2019 (COVID-19). Although, scientific evidence supporting facemasks’ efficacy is lacking, adverse physiological, psychological and health effects are established. Is has been hypothesized that facemasks have compromised safety and efficacy profile and should be avoided from use. The current article comprehensively summarizes scientific evidences with respect to wearing facemasks in the COVID-19 era, providing prosper information for public health and decisions making.

Clinical scientific evidence challenges further the efficacy of facemasks to block human-to-human transmission or infectivity. A randomized controlled trial (RCT) of 246 participants [123 (50%) symptomatic)] who were allocated to either wearing or not wearing surgical facemask, assessing viruses transmission including coronavirus ^[26]. The results of this study showed that among symptomatic individuals (those with fever, cough, sore throat, runny nose ect…) there was no difference between wearing and not wearing facemask for coronavirus droplets transmission of particles of >5 µm. Among asymptomatic individuals, there was no droplets or aerosols coronavirus detected from any participant with or without the mask, suggesting that asymptomatic individuals do not transmit or infect other people ^[26]. This was further supported by a study on infectivity where 445 asymptomatic individuals were exposed to asymptomatic SARS-CoV-2 carrier (been positive for SARS-CoV-2) using close contact (shared quarantine space) for a median of 4 to 5 days. The study found that none of the 445 individuals was infected with SARS-CoV-2 confirmed by real-time reverse transcription polymerase ^[27].

A meta-analysis among health care workers found that compared to no masks, surgical mask and N95 respirators were not effective against transmission of viral infections or influenza-like illness based on six RCTs ^[28]. Using separate analysis of 23 observational studies, this meta-analysis found no protective effect of medical mask or N95 respirators against SARS virus ^[28]. A recent systematic review of 39 studies including 33,867 participants in community settings (self-report illness), found no difference between N95 respirators versus surgical masks and surgical mask versus no masks in the risk for developing influenza or influenza-like illness, suggesting their ineffectiveness of blocking viral transmissions in community settings ^[29].

Masks table.png

I don't put a lot of stock into the physiological effects, but the psychological effects, to me, are easy to see. Human beings are social creatures and we aren't meant to interact with one another with half of our faces covered.

[Hannibal]

Talent -- here is some excellent and topical material for you. You speculated a while back that each side of the political spectrum has its own inaccuracies versus the truth.

The site below is a Right Wing site so it focuses on Liberal misconceptions, but it does mention a few that go in the opposite direction.

https://theredelephants.com/scientific-survey-shows-voters-across-the-political-spectrum-are-ideologically-deluded/

[Mike]

I have mask fatigue but I don't doubt there is at least a minimal health benefit with regard to putting less aerosol in the air. Surgeons have been wearing them for decades for a reason. That said, as a fully vaccinated person I am comfortable going into Home Depot without one. I still wear them in places that require them because I'm not interested in being some sort of crusader. At least outdoor activities in my area are back to normal. I have two kids in baseball and there is nary a mask to be seen at the ball fields in my town.

[Hannibal]

Surgeons have been wearing masks to prevent bacterial infections. Bacteria tend to be an order or magnitude or so bigger in size than viruses (or so I'm told).

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/art...rgical%20staff.

The facemask has been used in surgical settings for over a hundred years;² first described in 1897, at its inception, it consisted merely of a single layer of gauze to cover the mouth,³ and its primary function was to protect the patient from contamination and surgical site infection. This practice was substantiated, at the time, by a recent discovery which demonstrated that bacteria could be disseminated from the nose and mouth during normal conversation as observed by bacterial colony growth on strategically placed agar plates in theatres. In the 1940s and 1950s, antibiotics and aseptic technique came to the forefront of infection control strategies within the surgical setting. Until recently, it has remained unclear as to whether bacterial colony growth on an agar plate was a direct correlate of surgical site infections and also whether the purpose of the surgical mask has been superseded by more modern strategies of infection control..

[iam416]

Talent -- here is some excellent and topical material for you. You speculated a while back that each side of the political spectrum has its own inaccuracies versus the truth.

The site below is a Right Wing site so it focuses on Liberal misconceptions, but it does mention a few that go in the opposite direction.

https://theredelephants.com/scientif...cally-deluded/

Excellent. Thanks, Mike. To be clear, heh, I was only speculating re the Right. I was providing actual evidence re the Left.

But, that accords entirely with what I'd expect. Ideologically delusional is a pretty good term.

Again, you can't actually solve problem is you don't have the first fucking clue what or how big the problem is.

[Hannibal]

https://www.meehanmd.com/blog/post/1...ns-wear-them-1

A response to people who use the classic fallacious argument, "Well, if masks don't work, then why do surgeons wear them?"

I'm a surgeon that has performed over 10,000 surgical procedures wearing a surgical mask. However, that fact alone doesn't really qualify me as an expert on the matter. More importantly, I am a former editor of a medical journal. I know how to read the medical literature, distinguish good science from bad, and fact from fiction. Believe me, the medical literature is filled with bad fiction masquerading as medical science. It is very easy to be deceived by bad science.

Since the beginning of the pandemic I've read hundreds of studies on the science of medical masks. Based on extensive review and analysis, there is no question in my mind that healthy people should not be wearing surgical or cloth masks. Nor should we be recommending universal masking of all members of the population. That recommendation is not supported by the highest level of scientific evidence.

First, let's be clear. The premise that surgeons wearing masks serves as evidence that "masks must work to prevent viral transmission" is a logical fallacy that I would classify as an argument of false equivalence, or comparing "apples to oranges."

Although surgeons do wear masks to prevent their respiratory droplets from contaminating the surgical field and the exposed internal tissues of our surgical patients, that is about as far as the analogy extends. Obviously, surgeons cannot "socially distance" from their surgical patients (unless we use robotic surgical devices, in which case, I would definitely not wear a mask).

The CoVID-19 pandemic is about viral transmission. Surgical and cloth masks do nothing to prevent viral transmission. We should all realize by now that face masks have never been shown to prevent or protect against viral transmission. Which is exactly why they have never been recommended for use during the seasonal flu outbreak, epidemics, or previous pandemics.

The failure of the scientific literature to support medical masks for influenza and all other viruses, is also why Fauci, the US Surgeon General, the CDC, WHO, and pretty much every infectious disease expert stated that wearing masks won't prevent transmission of SARS CoV-2. Although the public health "authorities" flipped, flopped, and later changed their recommendations, the science did not change, nor did new science appear that supported the wearing of masks in public. In fact, the most recent systemic analysis once again confirms that masks are ineffective in preventing the transmission of viruses like CoVID-19: https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/26/5/19-0994_article

If a surgeon were sick, especially with a viral infection, they would not perform surgery as they know the virus would NOT be stopped by their surgical mask.

Another area of "false equivalence" has to do with the environment in which the masks are worn. The environments in which surgeons wear masks minimize the adverse effects surgical masks have on their wearers.

Unlike the public wearing masks in the community, surgeons work in sterile surgical suites equipped with heavy duty air exchange systems that maintain positive pressures, exchange and filter the room air at a very high level, and increase the oxygen content of the room air. These conditions limit the negative effects of masks on the surgeon and operating room staff. And yet despite these extreme climate control conditions, clinical studies demonstrate the negative effects (lowering arterial oxygen and carbon dioxide re-breathing) of surgical masks on surgeon physiology and performance.

Surgeons and operating room personnel are well trained, experienced, and meticulous about maintaining sterility. We only wear fresh sterile masks. We don the mask in a sterile fashion. We wear the mask for short periods of time and change it out at the first signs of the excessive moisture build up that we know degrades mask effectiveness and increases their negative effects. Surgeons NEVER re-use surgical masks, nor do we ever wear cloth masks.

The public is being told to wear masks for which they have not been trained in the proper techniques. As a result, they are mishandling, frequently touching, and constantly reusing masks in a way that increase contamination and are more likely than not to increase transmission of disease.

Just go watch people at the grocery story or Walmart and tell me what you think about the effectiveness of masks in the community.

If you can't help but believe and trust the weak retrospective observational studies and confused public health "authorities" lying to you about the benefits and completely ignoring the risks of medical masks, then you should at least reject the illogical anti-science recommendation to block only 2 of the 3 ports of entry for viral diseases. Masks only cover the mouth and nose. They do not protect the eyes.


Jim Meehan, MD

[Mike]

Interesting. Thanks, Hannibal.

[Mike]

Jenner is running for California Governor.

[Tom W]

Jenner is running for California Governor.

Isn't Jenner already the Governor of Michigan?

[Mike]

Geez, now that you mention it...

[UMStan White]

No surprise there This is the state that elected a Republican hack actor and a Republican cheating steroid induced Austrian

[Hannibal]

No surprise there This is the state that elected a Republican hack actor and a Republican cheating steroid induced Austrian

Never challenge the acting abilities of Ronald Reagan in my presence again.

[Kapture1]

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[Kapture1]

reference to this

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