Miscellaneous And Off Topic Subjects

[Tom W]

The trial may go on with an appropriate outcome whatever that may be. But you can count on the rejection of any verdict by agitators for equity and justice, mass protests, violence against police trying to control lawless mobs and protect property, and the general disregard of one of America's most important attributes, trial by a jury of peers producing a verdict based on the facts presented by both sides.

My prediction is that the agitators won't find the reception quite as friendly as they didi last year.

[Da Geezer]

It is hard for me to see how using a proscribed police procedure can be called indifference to one's actions. It seems to me Chauvin was carefully considering his moves. You really have to view the video of the time preceding the takedown to understand how hard it is to control a large man who has fentanyl in his system. BTW, a lethal level of fentanyl is 4 ng/ml.

[Mike]

It is hard for me to see how using a proscribed police procedure can be called indifference to one's actions. It seems to me Chauvin was carefully considering his moves. You really have to view the video of the time preceding the takedown to understand how hard it is to control a large man who has fentanyl in his system. BTW, a lethal level of fentanyl is 4 ng/ml.

There was video of him in the police cruiser going so berserk that the SUV was rocking back and forth. That disappeared from the news about 24 hours after the incident but it sure will turn up during the trial

[Tom W]

BTW, a lethal level of fentanyl is 4 ng/ml.

Yet, even at near 3x that number, Floyd wasn’t dead until Chauvin held his knee on his neck for seven minutes. The toxicology must be fraudulent..

[Ghengis Jon]

I am of the opinion that Chauvin cannot possibly get a fair trial. The combination of the media having created the "White Supremacy" boogeyman and the jurors knowing that they are dooming their city to riots if they acquit will be huge factors.

Not so sure about that. George Zimmerman, douche that he was, was rightfully acquited to the letter of the law. That verdict faced the same concerns. I also don't see any "White Supremacy" boogeyman - that's a dog whistle for the fringes of both sides.

Guessing it will be a 3rd degree conviction.

[iam416]

There was video of him in the police cruiser going so berserk that the SUV was rocking back and forth. That disappeared from the news about 24 hours after the incident but it sure will turn up during the trial

Correct. Same thing about the drugs. That's the thing with trials -- they ain't run by the media or the narrative or anything else. You don't get to make inconvenient facts just disappear. The defense gets to put on a full case and bring up all the facts in the case. Based on what I know, I wouldn't complain about a 3rd degree conviction for Chauvin. The others are borderline for a conviction of any sort, IMO.

[Mike]

Yep. The police recovered partially chewed up "speed balls" that are a combo of meth and fentanyl from the vehicle Floyd was in initially and the squad car they placed him in. His companion said he was trying to conceal the drugs. He passed out in the driver's seat and the woman with him called her daughter to pick her up because they didn't think they could wake Floyd. This, according to the defense's opening statement, followed the prosecutor's claim that drugs couldn't have been a factor because when someone OD's on opioids, they simply fall asleep and die. Doh!

[Jeff Buchanan]

..............followed the prosecutor's claim that drugs couldn't have been a factor because when someone OD's on opioids, they simply fall asleep and die.

That's sugar coating death from an opioid OD for the jurors. What happens is this: when the concentration of, in this case, Fentanyl, reaches a lethal level, the subject enters a comatose state. He can't be aroused with current techniques used to do that in the ER (a chest rub). That is a clear sign when an OD is suspected to infuse Naloxone (Narcan), IV, 2 mg of NARCAN (naloxone) in 500 mL of NS, WO. On the street, it's an IM injection of 0.4 ml or 1 ml ampules that can be used successively to restore respirations and cardiac function. Everyone has seen how quickly this works on TV. It actually works just like that.

Without interventions, the brain stem stops signaling for respirations, respiratory failure occurs with cardiac function ending just a few moments later. Clinical death occurs. Patients who die from an OD don't struggle. That's because they're comatose not asleep. You usually become aroused from a sleep state and struggle if in respiratory and/or cardiac failure, will actively engage muscles of respiration and norepinephrine will surge through your system to stimulate heart rate and heart muscle contractions. It's not pretty.

Once again, so many places for Floyd's life to be preserved. For example, when he was in the squad car flailing around, a recognized symptom of an OD, was NARCAN considered? Did the woman he was with call for EMTs? An EMT would have immediately recognized the OD, pulled out their pre-loaded syringes and jabbed him.

[Dr. Strangelove]

Correct me if I'm wrong on either point but

1) The official autopsy showed a (normally) fatal amount of fentanyl in Floyd's system. The Prosecutor earlier today mentioned this and said the amount would not necessarily be fatal to an addict, which Floyd was.

2) The coroner's official cause of death was "cardiopulmonary arrest complicating law enforcement subdual, restraint, and neck compression".

If Chauvin kneeling on his neck was only a contributing factor then I imagine that supports a lesser charge but what would it take to drop all charges completely? Enough reasonable doubt to think that the kneeling on his neck did not contribute AT ALL to his death? Believing that he was following procedure to the letter? Speaking only from memory but didn't one or two of the other cops show signs of being uncomfortable with how Chauvin (as the officer in charge) was handling things? I mean one of the others took Floyd's pulse, said he had none, and Chauvin keept kneeling for at least another two minutes

[iam416]

Right. IMO, Chauvin's conduct was ok up until a certain point and then he crossed into criminally liable.

I think it's probably safe to say that if Chauvin had not kneeled on his neck OR if Floyd had not taken a ton of drugs, he'd be alive. I really do believe that.

[iam416]

I thought at least two of the cops were on training or extremely new. They'd almost have no choice but to follow Chauvin's lead. I could be wrong on that, but I thought that was the case. Charging them criminally is ludicrous, IMO.

[Dr. Strangelove]

I thought at least two of the cops were on training or extremely new. They'd almost have no choice but to follow Chauvin's lead. I could be wrong on that, but I thought that was the case. Charging them criminally is ludicrous, IMO.

Almost positive two of them were rookies, yeah

[Mike]

I'm pretty sure they were on their 3rd SHIFT of their career. So like, days on the job. I recall hearing that Chauvin was a training officer as well. Not 100% certain if that is the case but I'm pretty sure. So when you've been on the force for all of 3 days and a 19 year veteran says, "it's cool, I got it" (words to that effect) I don't think it is reasonable to expect a brand new officer to make a big stink with the guy in charge.

[Mike]

Agree with Talent's position that Chauvin was OK up until Floyd didn't have a pulse. The fact that he prevented the firefighter from taking a look at Floyd won't play well with a jury. He really demonstrated a callousness by staying on him for 2-3 minutes after he was effectively out/dead.

[Hannibal]

Right. IMO, Chauvin's conduct was ok up until a certain point and then he crossed into criminally liable.

I think it's probably safe to say that if Chauvin had not kneeled on his neck OR if Floyd had not taken a ton of drugs, he'd be alive. I really do believe that.

I'm not a medical expert, but I don't see what the kneeling on the neck did to kill him, other than make it so that it was less obvious went he went unconscious and stopped breathing. He OD'ed and he was going to die without medical attention.