Miscellaneous And Off Topic Subjects

[froot loops]

[Mike]

Holy shit. That’s some real heroism from an everyday citizen. I hope he’s rewarded.

[CGVT]

Wow. That guy could have done some serious damage.

[Dr. Strangelove]

Interesting financial story...a hedge fund defaulted on some huge margin calls at the end of last week and it's raising questions about both the behavior of hedge funds and banks that are lending them money.

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/03/29/cred...of-losses.html

[Mike]

The Derek Chauvin trial begins today. Opening statements are at 10:30 EST. There were a couple interesting decisions in pretrial hearings. First is the 3rd degree murder charge was reinstated. This is potentially bad for Chauvin because it requires a much lower burden of proof. Second, the court is allowing evidence from Floyd's arrest a year prior to the fatal encounter in May 2020 in which he was also on fentanyl and exhibited many of the same behaviors. That is certainly to Chauvin's benefit.

The biggest factor in determining the verdict, IMO, will be the cause of death. How much of it was the fentanyl and how much was the knee? Although he faces as much as 40 years on the 2nd degree charge, he has no priors so Minnesota sentencing guidelines are 12.5 years on the most serious charges and 4.5 on the 3rd degree murder charge. I think there's also a 2nd degree manslaughter charge that would carry a couple years according to state sentencing guidelines.

If I had to wager on an outcome before this thing starts I think he gets convicted in the third degree and sentenced to about 5 years in prison. Get ready for mostly peaceful protests!

[lineygoblue]

Also, the judge has made some interesting rulings on jury selection, and ruled against a defense motion for a change of venue due to pre trial publicity. Those will all be potential appeal issues should he be convicted.

I wouldn't want to be anywhere near Minneapolis if he's acquitted. In fact, I think its a good idea to avoid all major cities should that happen. It might be interesting to see how KamalaJoe react to riots when they can't blame them on the orange man, or use them to their political advantage.

[Hannibal]

The biggest factor in determining the verdict, IMO, will be the cause of death. How much of it was the fentanyl and how much was the knee?

Per the initial ME's report, the knee is not what killed him. George Floyd died of a drug-induced cardiac arrest because he was high as fuck on fentanyl and meth.

And if you do a quick Google search, you can find literally dozens of pictures of this technique being used elsewhere.

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I have seen commentary that this technique has been popularized by the Israeli Army and that they have even trained our police officers, but a lot of that commentary comes from extreme Right Wing sources that blame Israel and Jews for everything, so I don't know how legit it is. But there is no shortage of material that shows that Derek Chauvin wasn't the first police officer to restrain a suspect the way that he did.

There's a reason why he was restrained the way that he was. A huge guy who is resisting arrest and in a drug-agitated state can be extremely dangerous. In the bodycam footage, Floyd was saying "I can't breathe" before he was ever on the ground. I don't know if it's because he was in a drug-agitated state or what. The cops were remarkably courteous to him, considering that he was resisting a lawful arrest. They offered to put him in their vehicle with the windows open and he still resisted, so they finally had to pin him to the ground. The media, of course, has reported absolutely none of this, and at some point, they have the blood of the riot victims on their hands.

I suspect that Derek Chauvin will be found guilty and be used as a sacrificial lamb. The riots if he is acquitted will be legendary. The lives of the jury members themselves might be at stake, and I suspect that they just want the BLM rioting and violence to be over with.

[iam416]

Well, heh, the knee WAS a factor. The ME did not say that Floyd would have just dropped dead regardless. It may have not been the sole factor (and likely wasn't), but no one in the right fucking mind is going to sit here and say Floyd would have died regardless, with or without the knee.

The potential for a "combining" factor goes to intent. I still think they overcharged the case. It's going to be extremely difficult to show intent or some sort of malice when you're using an approved police technique. I think it's far more likely you can establish recklessness or negligence -- that is to say, at some point Chauvin should have appreciated that the situation was turning south.

So, I tend to think Mike is right in his prediction, but who knows. The real overcharging is with the other 3 officers.

[Jeff Buchanan]

The trial may go on with an appropriate outcome whatever that may be. But you can count on the rejection of any verdict by agitators for equity and justice, mass protests, violence against police trying to control lawless mobs and protect property, and the general disregard of one of America's most important attributes, trial by a jury of peers producing a verdict based on the facts presented by both sides.

[Hannibal]

no one in the right fucking mind is going to sit here and say Floyd would have died regardless,

Talent -- this is not true. Floyd had a cocktail of drugs in his system at the time. Enough to kill him. He also had been previously hospitalized for an overdose.

He had previously been in trouble with the law. It's not out of the realm of possibility that he had drugs that he swallowed to avoid another possession charge. He had previously swallowed drugs before an arrest.

Edit: I have seen some commentary that these are lethal amounts, but I can't find it, and I am not an expert, so I could be wrong. But a mixture of fentanyl and meth seems very dangerous to me.

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[Jeff Buchanan]

That's a lethal combo. Narcan can reverse lethality. But Hanni's point remains. From a medical perspective I think it would be difficult to show that Floyd was proceeding to unconsciousness and death secondary to opioid induced respiratory and cardiac failure before he went to the ground.

I can't get past the simple fact that Floyd could have saved his life by not resisting law enforcement's lawful intervention.

[Mike]

He ate a bunch of pills before the arrest. Bits of them were found in the backseat of the police cruiser. I read an article months ago where the ME claimed he was in the process of dying before the police even showed up. That was destined to be the final day of George Floyd’s life one way or another.

And good point about the approved technique. It’s called a “carotid hold”. Now if local authorities want to ban the practice as a result of this case, fine. But I have a hard time convicting someone of murder for using an approved technique that is specifically designed to subdue someone who is resisting arrest.

This defense argument will rely on the escalation of Floyd’s resistance. If proper protocols/procedure were followed... that’s a big win for the defense.

I also think it’s virtually impossible for him to get a fair trial. The judge seems to be doing a good job but I have no doubt there are members of the jury that want to fry Chauvin no matter what is presented at trial. His best shot is the 3rd degree conviction or mistrial.

[Hannibal]

I'm open to the idea that Chauvin was criminally negligent by not calling for medical attention sooner. Floyd's life could have been saved. I don't know about "Should have" though. That's a tough call for me.

BTW, Floyd was not alone when he got arrested. He was with a woman and the cops asked her if he had taken drugs. She just blithely and indifferently said "he got a thing goin' on". Nice job, lady.

[Mike]

I think that’s kinda how the 3rd degree statute reads. Something along the lines of an indifference of one’s actions resulting in death. No intent required. That shoe probably fits.

[Hannibal]

I am of the opinion that Chauvin cannot possibly get a fair trial. The combination of the media having created the "White Supremacy" boogeyman and the jurors knowing that they are dooming their city to riots if they acquit will be huge factors.