Miscellaneous And Off Topic Subjects

[THE_WIZARD_]

Good luck with that...

[Jeff Buchanan]

The FDA won't meet to discuss J&J's vaccine until February 26. The FDA has had the J&J data since early February/end of January. It's been approved in other countries. The US is sitting here with a real supply issue that isn't going to get magically fixed by the DPA. What the US Govt can do is hurry the fuck up with J&J. But, apparently, they'll get to it when they get to it.

If this PDJT's FDA The Media would be screaming bloody murder. Literally. I hope they go after Chairman Joe's FDA with similar vigor.

I did read an article that explains the apparent delay - although I preferred Trump's ass-kicking the FDA to approve the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines that actually worked ..... of I'm gogint o fire your ass if you don't get on this tomorrow.

Apparently, the 02/26 FDA review of the out-side advisory board meeting date is moved up several weeks from the normal process for assembling all the study data and allowing unbiased review of the trial result data. The gist of it all is to remove the pharmaceutical company's own bias of how good the product they want approved is. It's a worthwhile, painstaking review of trail data. At this point where almost everything associated with the pandemic is politicized, you're going to have to deal with "rushed the product and it's not safe so, I'm not taking it." Stupid, for sure but you want the highest level of compliance you can get so, let's take care to make sure the public is satisfied the vaccine wasn't rushed to market to make money. I get this but I'm not defending it. This is a fucking emergency. I don't care if the committee has to stay up for 72 straight hours to get this done..... do it. I also don't care about anti-vaxers. More important to get as many jabs into arms as possible.

[Whitley]

The FDA won't meet to discuss J&J's vaccine until February 26. The FDA has had the J&J data since early February/end of January. It's been approved in other countries. The US is sitting here with a real supply issue that isn't going to get magically fixed by the DPA. What the US Govt can do is hurry the fuck up with J&J. But, apparently, they'll get to it when they get to it.

If this PDJT's FDA The Media would be screaming bloody murder. Literally. I hope they go after Chairman Joe's FDA with similar vigor.

One thing is that J&J is only at 72% effectiveness. But it is only a one shot vaccine. So the question is at that low (comparatively to Moderna and Pfizer) percentage does that mean we would need factor that into clamping down on covid 19 (ie need a much higher percentage vaccinated because the J&J vaccine is so much lower in effectiveness).

[iam416]

Whitley:

Keep in mind that mild and moderate cases count against the rate. I think Pfizer may be 94%, but that 6% is almost entirely mild and moderate cases.

The 72% is no virus. The 28% is almost certainly mostly mild cases.

In any event, 72% is pretty high for a vaccine and would do real work in pushing us toward herd immunity. I would continue to use Pfizer/Moderna for at risk populations, but, fuck man — throw open the gates and get J&J going—certainly run it through the FDA with some alacrity.

[iam416]

I did read an article that explains the apparent delay - although I preferred Trump's ass-kicking the FDA to approve the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines that actually worked ..... of I'm gogint o fire your ass if you don't get on this tomorrow.

Apparently, the 02/26 FDA review of the out-side advisory board meeting date is moved up several weeks from the normal process for assembling all the study data and allowing unbiased review of the trial result data. The gist of it all is to remove the pharmaceutical company's own bias of how good the product they want approved is. It's a worthwhile, painstaking review of trail data. At this point where almost everything associated with the pandemic is politicized, you're going to have to deal with "rushed the product and it's not safe so, I'm not taking it." Stupid, for sure but you want the highest level of compliance you can get so, let's take care to make sure the public is satisfied the vaccine wasn't rushed to market to make money. I get this but I'm not defending it. This is a fucking emergency. I don't care if the committee has to stay up for 72 straight hours to get this done..... do it. I also don't care about anti-vaxers. More important to get as many jabs into arms as possible.

Stabs. Stabs. Stabs. Get this fucking thing on the market yesterday.

[iam416]

Whitley—just read an article (on Vox!...JFC!)...J&J is as effective as Moderna/Pfizer in reducing deaths/hospitalizations—and 85% effective against more severe cases.

[Jeff Buchanan]

In other pandemic news, I'm reporting this evening on an Economist article that is probably the best summation of the science and potential impact of the SARS-2 variants I've read.

Highlights (the article is linked below, you can get to it on a trial basis. Worth a read):

The article is objectively optimistic.

• The variants are believed to increase transmissibility but that's about it. The jury is still out on that though. What else they do will depend on two scenarios:
• (1) Vaccines that prevent disease but not infection.
• (2) Vaccines that prevent disease and infection.

Vaccines.PNG

• The Israeli's experience is favoring the second scenario but not enough data yet to be assured of this.
• There is emerging evidence as vaccines roll out that there is variance in how each vaccine works and how different populations produce immune responses.
• Overall though, all the vaccines in circulation seem to be having a positive impact on hospitalizations which by nature, will decrease deaths. That's the good news.
• The bad news is that scenario one (prevents disease but not an Increase in new cases) by it's nature will increase hospitalizations and probably deaths.

It appears all of the variants studied so far are using the same trick to evade immune response or vaccines. Apparently, this is common as viruses are not as smart as humans are and follow a predictable process in genomic modifications.

• This is good news as tweaks to vaccines (boosters) are already in the works to defeat those tricks ..... very similar to the process for tweaking FLU vaccines every year.
• Yes, the virus could be endemic, meaning it won't be eradicated by the vaccines and could be with us for along time but protective vaccines will reduce disease burden much like they do this for FLU whihc is an endemic virus.

From another related article:

• Governments need to start figuring out how they are going to respond with PH measures to deal with an endemic SARS-2.
• The emergency reaction was more or less acceptable a year ago (in varying degrees of smart and dumb).
• It is no longer sustainable at any level of smart or dumb.
• Mobility restrictions as well as currently accepted mitigation measures (social distancing and restrictions on congregate settings) are going to have to be modified to make them both objectively proven effective and widely accepted as necessary by the public - in the free world, communists and authoritarians don't give a shit if the people don't like them.

https://www.economist.com/briefing/2...ear=nl_today_1

[Dr. Strangelove]

With Moderna/Pfizer being mRNA based, do they have any advantages against variants versus the J&J vaccine? Or does that really not matter?

[Dr. Strangelove]

This is impeachable. Not so much for the original mistakes, like I've said before, but for the subsequent coverups and refusal to accept responsibility.

https://nypost.com/2021/02/11/cuomo-aide-admits-they-hid-nursing-home-data-from-feds/

[Jeff Buchanan]

With Moderna/Pfizer being mRNA based, do they have any advantages against variants versus the J&J vaccine? Or does that really not matter?

I don't think the mRNA vaccines confer an advantage. They are easier to manufacture and produce in large quantities that advantage is off-set by the distribution, mixing and administration issues. It's not altogether clear yet but, yes, vaccines that are being rolled out in the US later (J&J, Novavax, AZ) will have reduced efficacy mainly because it is anticipated that the B1.1.7 (the UK variant) got a foothold in the US and may well become the dominant strain.

But it is important to understand, and others have pointed this out here, reduced efficacy does not translate to they won't work in preventing you from having serious complications of C-19. So far, that has not been the case. All the vaccines introduced, even those globally outside the US, are preventing serious C-19 symptoms and reducing hospitalizations and deaths (in countries that are vaccinating heavily and reporting accurately).

What seems to be happening is that transmission rates are less affected by the vaccines in areas where the variants are spreading. That puts more people at risk but the risk of serious complications from C-19 remains reduced among the vaccinated population.

Vaccine companies already have tweaks in the works. What this means on the ground is that for over 65s, the current target cohort, is going to get some protection that's probably pretty damn good but could be improved by a booster, say, in the fall. For the under 65's who will probably start seeing "open season' by April, there may be vaccine production already tweaked and there will definitely be tweaked vaccines in full production by August/September.

None of this means you shouldn't get what's offered or wait around until you think a tweaked version might be worth waiting for. It's not. You're going to get damn near 80- 90% protection (you might get the sniffles but won't die!) just from the first versions of the vaccine already in production/circulation and if you continue to be smart about protecting yourself, closer to 100% protection (you won't experience anything because you continued to be smart and didn't catch it). At some point, you'll get a booster I suspect but we don't know how that's going to work yet. It's all idle talk ...... and the most important message is get vaccinated as soon as you are offered a jab, any jab.

[Jeff Buchanan]

This is impeachable. Not so much for the original mistakes, like I've said before, but for the subsequent coverups and refusal to accept responsibility.

https://nypost.com/2021/02/11/cuomo-...ata-from-feds/

Agreed ...... what this points to is the monumental failure of government's, in this case the state of NY and in the person of Governor Cuomo, to do what is best for the nation's public health instead of what is best for you or your state politically.

Trump shares the blame here too and if you're talking about an impeachable offense committed by PDJT, that he threatened Governors causing them to act in ways damaging to the state's PH interests seems to me to be hard to make that case. Governors had opportunity to take helpful actions, Cuomo made very bad decisions with regard to LTC residents very early in the pandemic that had disastrous consequences. I'd argue he should be recalled for that.

[Hannibal]

The real scandal to me there is the vast overstating of the threat that the virus poses to non-octogenarians. Schools across the country are still doing remote learning because they are supposedly protecting the teachers and students, when in reality, they aren't protecting hardly anyone in those age brackets. DItto for the still idiotic approach to cancelling college basketball games. There are some exceptions in these lower age groups, in which case a much better solution from the beginning would have been to identify and specifically protect the at-risk population, and let everyone else live their lives. Meanwhile, we should have had nursing homes locked down like prisons and treated like surgery rooms from Day 1.

[Hannibal]

This is impeachable. Not so much for the original mistakes, like I've said before, but for the subsequent coverups and refusal to accept responsibility.

https://nypost.com/2021/02/11/cuomo-...ata-from-feds/

In typical political fashion, they will cauterize the would and find a fall guy. Cuomo will be unscathed.

I wonder what Cuomo did to piss off the Democrats. This is all coming from within. This kind of shit doesn't happen by chance.

[Hannibal]

[Jeff Buchanan]

Schools across the country are still doing remote learning because they are supposedly protecting the teachers and students, when in reality, they aren't protecting hardly anyone in those age brackets.

On a gut level, causing the elderly to die by whatever missteps an official might take has to be high on the list of dumbfuckery where the public ought to demand accountability. OTH, although it's hard to recognize the impact long term, school closings because officials bow to the idiocy of the teacher's unions, tops my list of unfathomable pandemic reaction stupidity. That step alone will cause untold damage to the nation and the kids within it.