Miscellaneous And Off Topic Subjects

[Tom W]

Chairman Joe, of course, supports the Teachers' Unions in their various fights to keep schools shut down. Jim Geraghty pillories this fucking nonsense: https://www.nationalreview.com/corne...everyone-else/

We all tend to sympathize with teachers- because we trust our kids with them, assign them responsibilities that we don't want to do, assume that they are overworked and underpaid and secretly feel guilty about what jerks we were to most of them when we were growing up. Trying to pick up the slack created by having our kids learning virtually only confirms that most of us aren't really cut out for their jobs. So sure, if there's a chance for them to pull a victim card out of the deck, they are going to take it and they're going to get some backing when they use it.

[Da Geezer]

Chairman Joe, of course, supports the Teachers' Unions in their various fights to keep schools shut down. Jim Geraghty pillories this fucking nonsense: https://www.nationalreview.com/corne...everyone-else/

Why are public school teachers treated differently than the rest of society? Because of their unions. It's always about more money or less work. How are they different than steelworkers? Well, because teachers have as hostages school children and their working parents.

The solution here has always been obvious. Start school on February 1 and fire any teachers who don't show up. This is similar to the Air Traffic Controllers early in the Reagan administration. There will be a lot of hand-wringing about "staffing", but that will be worked out in short order like it was then. Believe me, the skill set of an air traffic controller is vastly more specialized than that of an elementary teacher. With new curricula and computers, almost anyone can teach grades K-6. If teachers strike, take their pensions.

This confrontation is inevitable. A society can't continue to pay double the free-market price to government teachers just to keep the peace.

[Hannibal]

Messing around with public sector unions is risky for politicians. Most people still sympathize pretty heavily with them. Or at least the more prominent employees like firefighters, policemen, and teachers.

[Hannibal]

In Nazi Germany and Communist Russia, people ratted out their neighbors for speaking against the government.

In the UK in 2021, people rat out their neighbors for having a baby shower.

[lineygoblue]

Next your neighbors will rat you out because you had a Trump sign in front of your house, and you are in need of deprogramming.

Deprogramming is out there as a suggestion, and I haven't heard anyone in The Party or Chairman Joe say anything against it.

Do they feel that deprogramming is necessary, or not? Speak up.

[CGVT]

Necessary.

Carry on.

[Dr. Strangelove]

Volunteering this snitch for deprogramming

https://www.stripes.com/news/us/man-pleads-guilty-in-conspiracy-to-kidnap-michigan-governor-1.660012

[Ghengis Jon]

Why are public school teachers treated differently than the rest of society? Because of their unions. It's always about more money or less work. How are they different than steelworkers? Well, because teachers have as hostages school children and their working parents.

The solution here has always been obvious. Start school on February 1 and fire any teachers who don't show up. This is similar to the Air Traffic Controllers early in the Reagan administration. There will be a lot of hand-wringing about "staffing", but that will be worked out in short order like it was then. Believe me, the skill set of an air traffic controller is vastly more specialized than that of an elementary teacher. With new curricula and computers, almost anyone can teach grades K-6. If teachers strike, take their pensions.

This confrontation is inevitable. A society can't continue to pay double the free-market price to government teachers just to keep the peace.

Your 'solution' is part of the problem. Holly Academy, a charter school (we previously discussed) pays an average salary of $31,029 and median salary of $31,656 (according to govsalaries.com). A family of 4 is considered at the poverty level of $26,400. What highly motivated, competent teacher will accept near poverty wages? Not very many. This is the reason there is high turnover, no loyalty and low morale in the charter system. Charter schools are only a stepping stone from graduation into the workforce. Those that are competent immediately move on to a non "free market" job, and those who are less competent stay. Students that remain in the substandard charter environment have a greater chance of being semi-functional illiterates because of the toxic environment. Remove tenure and your problems in the school system goes away. Can the bad apples and performance improves (duh). Good teachers gravitate to good salaries, so keeping salaries low defeats your goal of quality education.

I'm not a teacher, I'm a former engineer now innovating in a specialized field. I am the best at what I do and my salary reflects that, more than twice the national average for my position. My company expects world class output from me. Fair enough. I may be skilled and motivated, but I'm not bloody likely to accept a salary slightly above poverty. Skilled educators probably feel the same way. If you don't care about the quality of education or the well being of the people who will eventually select your nursing home, pay the educators 'free market' wages. Taxpayers without children will applaud. Everyone else suffers.

Get rid of tenure. Its YOUR failure if you can't adequately negotiate with unions. Paying a decent wage will attract decent teachers. Bullshit wages bring bullshit employees. You will get the level of quality for the level of resources provided. That's the fault of administrators and boards, not teachers. You get what you pay for.

[iam416]

All I hear about from teachers and teachers unions is that they are all underpaid which, apparently, means they all suck because bad people gravitate toward bad salaries. And, honestly, LMMFAO @ "get rid of tenure" while defending unions. LMMFAO.

The original point which I raised and which Geezer was addressing still obviously stands. Teacher unions are killing school. Their abhorrently bad behavior is having a regressive effect on urban education. For example, my old school district has been full-time ALL FUCKING SCHOOL YEAR. No problems. The school district my kids live in is at least in a hybrid model.

But, Columbus City school teachers refuse to go back. DO. YOUR. FUCKING. JOB.

And, of course, Chairman Joe and, apparently, Biden's Cock Holster, side with the teachers.

[Hannibal]

Paying a decent wage will attract decent teachers. Bullshit wages bring bullshit employees.

You need some way of distinguishing between the two and rewarding the good ones appropriately. That doesn't happen now.

[Ghengis Jon]

True enough. Difficult to put objective metrics on teaching. Grade inflation and test easement kill looking at student grades. A student's performance improvement would be a better measurement. The quality and availability of learning materials plays a significant part in student learning, all other things being equal, (which they never are). Student evaluations reliably identify teachers that are motivational (or not) but not much else.

I wonder if any here, or their spouses, are teachers. Perhaps they could shed some light on what is measured in performance evaluations in the non-collegiate environment.

[THE_WIZARD_]

STFU

[Da Geezer]

True enough. Difficult to put objective metrics on teaching. Grade inflation and test easement kill looking at student grades. A student's performance improvement would be a better measurement. The quality and availability of learning materials plays a significant part in student learning, all other things being equal, (which they never are). Student evaluations reliably identify teachers that are motivational (or not) but not much else.

I wonder if any here, or their spouses, are teachers. Perhaps they could shed some light on what is measured in performance evaluations in the non-collegiate environment.

Jon, we have had this discussion before. I ran a charter school in Muskegon for 16 years. You are right in saying that eliminating tenure is a key to improving government schools. I can say what else also worked:
- As far as teacher evaluations, we had a pair of retired educators show up unannounced to evaluate teachers. This would happen 3 times in a school year per teacher. It makes no sense to have evaluations done by administrators within a school-too much chance for personalities to be involved.
- Compensation matters: We paid a $ 5,000 bonus to excellent teachers. Your figures from the government about the Holly Academy are just unrealistic, and Charter schools pay roughly the same STARTING PAY as do government schools. The difference in compensation is in succeeding years where gov. teachers get at least two raises each year. Another factor is the 30% of base that the gov schools pay toward a defined benefit pension program. Charters have a defined contribution plan. Gov. teachers can retire after 30 years, meaning at age 52-54 or so. I have a teacher friend who has drawn his pension for a longer period than he worked.
- Uniforms work, particularly in low-income areas. Pennys would offer pants for $ 10 and polos at $5. Kids typically bought two pairs of pants and four shirts (they had four colors). For $ 40 bucks a really poor kid could look the same as wealthier kids. And there were no gang colors.
- Administration: We had one Principal and the Board President. Government schools waste large sums on assistant principals in charge of curriculum, discipline, social work and the like.

And remember, Charter schools (at least in 2012) received 63% of the per-pupil grant that government schools received.

But tenure is indeed the key to improving all schools. Where else does one have perfect job security after being on the job for three years?

[Ghengis Jon]

Jeff - here's a link, kind of a tangent, to the earlier Ring discussion. The impact of Perpetual Brother. The issues are interesting, the solutions offered not so much.

https://www.npr.org/2021/01/27/961103187/surveillance-and-local-police-how-technology-is-evolving-faster-than-regulation

[WingsFan]

I almost got Ring, I now have SimpliSafe. When it comes to alarm, you've really got two major categories. The DIY market has exploded over the last few years with easy-to-install cheap systems like, Ring, Cove, and Nest. There our two acres to my front/side door and I don't have people just drop by (expect 2 friends I can think of) if someone is at the door they better have a reason.