Miscellaneous And Off Topic Subjects

[THE_WIZARD_]

ANARCHISTS!!

[Hannibal]

The free markets argument about Social media isn’t even up to date. Financial deplatforming is already happening. Laura Loomer and Milo are two examples.

The trend is going to contnue expanding into other areas. There’s a reason why Liberals want a social credit system akin to what China has. Wait until Blue Cross/Blue Shield starts dropping Republicans from coverage.

[CGVT]

If I have this right, what outrages conservatives and I suppose if you want to, call them Republicans (not my Rs, however) is the huge difference between the left's reaction to the "BLM RIots" or, as has been repeatedly mocked, the "peaceful protests" that followed the Taylor/Floyd killings and the left's (the Ds) reactions to what went on in DC last week.

This summer's activities, ostensibly representing the BLM movement, were full-on, wide spread rioting, looting and destruction of both private and government property in several major cities. Government officials with the authority to do so, all of them duly elected Democrats as I recall, absolutely failed in their sworn duty to protect the peace and restore civil order. It was thought then and still is a purposeful neglect by these officials, for what purpose is still unclear to me but failure to act seems to me to have been a result of taking the attitude that this kind of shit is necessary to wake the fucking nation up. No it was not.

Lawlessness this summer, when the lawless were easily identified and could have been brought to justice and held accountable, went un-prosecuted. The scale of the official, prosecutorial and political inaction was outrageous and worse, attempts were made by the left to justify it as way of the underclasses (mostly blacks) protesting the injustices born by this group and meted out by the upper classes (mostly whites). Full-on class warfare shit or you people deserved this. It made me sick. Nobody deserved that and especially the black business owners in the black neighborhoods that saw the worst of the destruction and the lack of protection by police.

This time, in DC, law-breakers, again easily identified, are being hunted down like prey, not unjustifiably but in contrast to the summer's lawlessness a pretty startling and aggravating contrast. The millions who came to DC to protest what they thought was a stolen election, although misinformed, mislead and in some cases extreme, are being characterized as thugs. The President characterized as the chief instigator and acting like Adolph HItler (with some accuracy, IMO, except the Hitler shit, but that's another story).

Tolerating lawful dissent is exactly what AlabamaAlum pointed out with reference to the ancient's forms of governance. Allowing lawful dissent is essential to the preservation of democracy. The difference between the two events, both considered as protests, is one of preparation and response. This summer's protests were met with a purposeful lack of response. Rioting, looting and the rest ensued. Well, no shit. This is where I am agreement with AA and Mike, among others, that first POS coming through the door of my business or my property with an angry mob behind them gets a bullet center-mass and I'm locked and loaded for the next one if they should stupidly advance. That's a response that most will agree is a deterrent to lawlessness.

The official, LE response to the chaos in the Capital last week, was a result of incompetence in preparation of LE for a large gathering, in the millions if authorities had been paying attention, with a huge potential for rioting, looting and destruction of property if the fuse was lit by a match ..... turned out it was and IMO that was more the actions of planned provocateurs and extremists and less about PDJT's fanciful ego enjoying the throngs cheering him and his cause while he tweeted gleefully away. Yes, there were undertones of Nazi germany, the benefits of propaganda, the elevation of an authoritarian government because of lies and misinformation propagated through it and incitement to nefarious action but that's over-the-top rhetoric, certainly appealing to Ds and Trump opponents though.I think it was ancillary to what actually went on.

In contrast, the LE response to this summers riots was willful and purposeful neglect of a sworn duty and obligation to protect. In many cases, law enforcement was told to stand down or LE officials refused to enforce civil order in certain neighborhoods because government officials had hamstrung their ability to do their jobs. That shit was then justified by liberals and Ds and it continues to be justified today. Terrible. If you want to boil all of the discourse that's going on right now to one argument that is worth having, ask yourself then discuss why one side justifies it's outrageous behaviors this summer and then turns around and condemns the same sort of behavior from the other side albeit and to include on a much smaller scale? That's what enrages conservatives and if you want to include them, the Rs. Count me angry and upset. But I just can't rant about it, even here among intelligent people. Instead I'll be advocating for two things from Congress and the DOJ in the context of this discussion: (1) Preservation of 1A rights, especially when it comes to lawful dissent. (2) improvements to include an emphasis on equal protections under the law for all Americans and a thoughtful review of how laws are enforced by the public servants that are law enforcement. Do these things and we take a step forward in preventing what happened this summer across the nation and in DC last week.

The part that makes this different was the fact that it attempted coup with the encouragement of POTUS. Period. There is no comparison.

And...If you think that this was an underestimation of the what could happen by the authorities and they just got caught with their pants down, you are naive.

I sat through some high level intel and planning meetings for the Montreal G Summit when I was Officer in Charge of of CG Station Burlington. FBI, CIA, Customs, Border Patrol (pre ICE)etc etc. They knew exactly who he bad actors were, who was was going to be there, and what their goals were and had plans to stop them. This was with early internet and limited cell phones. It was so detailed and comprehensive that I was actually a bit shocked at the extent of their knowledge.
To think that they didn't know what was going to happen in DC last week defies logic. The lack of security was no accident.
Yes. I am outraged.
You should be too.

[Hannibal]

“attempted coup” LMAO.

[CGVT]

Oh that's right, it was just good ol boys having some fun.

Jesus.

[lineygoblue]

If that was an attempted coup, it was the lamest attempted coup in the history of the world.

[CGVT]

If that was an attempted coup, it was the lamest attempted coup in the history of the world.

Well, it was led by Trump...

[CGVT]

According to Lt General Honore' (The Katrina Task Force guy)



think once this gets uncovered there were some complicit actions at the capitol police. A police chief has been fired, but now we need to look at the special investigation. Was he complicit along with the sergeant of arms in the house and the senate? It gives appearance of complicity. He complied because he might have thought 45 was coming to the capitol, and they gave way to the protesters who easily breached the capitol. This is a crying damn shame. And I applaud those individual officers who put their lives on the line yesterday to try to restore order. But yesterday they were poorly led. The good news is tomorrow those three individuals will be fired and not allowed back into the Capitol. The Sergeant-At-Arms of both houses and the Capitol Police chief. And i think investigation[s] will find out there [were] some complicit actions here.

Indeed, over 50 of those officers in trying to do their jobs were injured. But as you point out, they were poorly led. This was a surprise to no one. The President had advertised it. Hell, this went out in a group email to every QAnon nut job and white supremacist and neo-nazi and anti-semite within hundreds of miles. Yet, I want to read you this in The Washington Post:

In memos issued on january 4 and 5, the Pentagon prohibited the district guardsman from receiving ammunition or riot gear, interacting with protesters unless necessary for self-defense, sharing equipment with local law enforcement or using guard surveillance and air assets without the Defense Secretary's explicit sign-off, according to officials familiar with the orders.

And generally, I think we know each other pretty well. I am not a conspiracy theorist either, and yet reading the tea leaves here, you would think that some kind of a fix was in.

It was complicit. They complied doing what they thought 45 wanted to do. And I don't want to cross the line here because I'm subject to uniform code of military justice, but because if I make a derogatory remark against the President or certain members of his Cabinet. But I will say this: to hell with it. This was total incompetence and was complicit by the leadership involved in securing the Capitol because they wanted to please 45, because they thought he might come over. This is a crying shame. I used to be on the Joint Chiefs of Staff and attend meetings at the situation room weekly, sometimes bi-weekly. I know the security plan. I have coordinated with the Capitol Police, the Sergeant-At-Arms, in discussions on how we would secure the Capitol during the annual inauguration speech. I know this plan. I know the details. I know the intelligence that's collected by the FBI. I know the intelligence collected by now Homeland Security. They all knew that this could be a dangerous situation. When you have that many people coming to town and they fail to [act].

[AlabamAlum]

He might be right, but Honoré is a 10lbs of crazy in a 5lb bag.

[froot loops]

There was no chance of them having a successful coup but some of those MAGAs were going to take hostages or kill. You don't bring zip ties, pipe bombs and molotov cocktails just having a good old time.

The important part is your personal savior Donald Trump thought he could force Mike Pence to overthrow the election results for 2 months and all of the GOP minus Liz Cheney and Mitt Romney humored him. Trump himself thought he was going to overthrow the results. Pence and Trump haven't spoken since Pence betrayed him.

[CGVT]

He might be right, but Honoré is a 10lbs of crazy in a 5lb bag.

He is on both counts.

[Hannibal]

A "coup" where 99% of the people were unarmed and did shit like break windows, take selfies at Nancy Pelosi's desk, raid the candy drawers, and steal shit to take as souvenirs.

No military involvement. No scheming. No co-conspirators. No return fire when Ashli Babbitt wias shot. No prolonged occupation of the building. Two deaths directly as a result of the unrest. The counting of the electoral votes got delayed for a few hours. It's not a "coup". It's a riot and, by Democrat standards, a very minor one at that.

Stop being clowns.

[CGVT]

A "coup" where 99% of the people were unarmed and did shit like break windows, take selfies at Nancy Pelosi's desk, raid the candy drawers, and steal shit to take as souvenirs.

No military involvement. No scheming. No co-conspirators. No return fire when Ashli Babbitt wias shot. No prolonged occupation of the building. Two deaths directly as a result of the unrest. The counting of the electoral votes got delayed for a few hours. It's not a "coup". It's a riot and, by Democrat standards, a very minor one at that.

Stop being clowns.

^^^^ No clue.

[Hannibal]

It wasn't a coup. It was an impromptu riot. It was a riot by Right Wingers. The first of its kind in my lifetime. Maybe that's why the police presence was inadequate. Just one month earlier, a couple hundred thousand pro-Trumpers showed up in DC without an iota of violence. Before January 6, 2021, you could actually trust Republicans to demonstrate peacefully. I guess that you can't anymore. Maybe Republicans finally got sick of being the people who follow the rules of society.. I don't know. I don't attend that kind of stuff.

It wasn't the first time that political partisans have stormed and/or occupied the Capitol (which, by the way, is a public building that our tax dollars pay for). It happened for the Kavanaugh hearings. There were hundreds of people arrested for those. Hundreds. People disrupting the legislative process wasn't unique to this occurrence. They didn't cross some sort of unprecedented line. And they didn't burn down the city in anger.

[CGVT]

There was nothing impromptu about it.

They went to the Capitol with a purpose. There as been nothing in our lifetimes to compare to it. Nothing. To discount it as just something that "happened" is to be purposely obtuse.

There is no doubt the intel was there. Why is was ignored is obviously up to interpretation, but make no mistake they knew and they ignored it.