Miscellaneous And Off Topic Subjects

[iam416]

Where do people believe the spread is happening since people here have ruled out bars, restaurants, gyms, theaters, stores, workplaces, schools, airlines, and cruise lines?

Do the majority here truly believe that so long as you're young, you shouldn't be concerned about contracting and helping to spread the disease?

Your sass directly implied that young people were ignoring substantial risks to themselves. Which is total fucking bullshit.

You ask two questions. The first is an obvious NO. No, young people shouldn't be concerned about contracting Covid, at least in any meaningful way that alters their lives. Wear a mask, fine. Stop going to school? Stop going out? Meh. Whatever. The risk is for them is very much akin to the flu.

The second question is the goalpost moving question and the only serious policy question as it relates to folks under 40.

[Dr. Strangelove]

I repeat what I said last week. Vaccines are coming in the near future. We should be more amenable to restrictions as a bridge through this worst season. I want schools to remain open. They are the last thing that should be closing. So to reduce social interaction, since people have proven they won't do it voluntarily, YES, reduce the number of hours bars & restaurants & clubs & gyms can remain open. YES reduce the allowed capacity. Give them financial compensation to help the businesses survive. Encourage people, even young people, to maybe not go out as much and maybe not for as long. We only have a few months to go at this point. It's not "life changed forever" any more.

[AlabamAlum]

When we start administering the vaccines widespread, talk to me about a shut down.

As far as your YES list, I have never understood the reduced hours bit. For example, gyms that are normally opened 18 hours a day that are now open 10 hours, just become busier during their reduced open hours.

[iam416]

On vaccines, it's worth noting that if we actually start distributing in December then PDJT would have been right about predicting a vaccine by year's end when The Media and The Left were wildly wrong. Granted, he's probably batting about 0.150 in his Covid predictions, but this one was a home run.

Operation Warp Speed looks like it will prove amazingly successful.

[Dr. Strangelove]

For the record I don't think I've ever suggested, at least not since the spring, that young people were personally in high danger from covid. It's always about them being carriers to the rest of the public and people who are legitimately of higher risk. My risk is almost certainly lower than nearly everyone else here but I definitely do not eat out as much, only go grocery shopping maybe once every 2-3 weeks, and have stopped hanging out at breweries every weekend. I'm not doing that because I'm scared I'm going to die. I'm scared I will pass covid onto people that'll get it a lot rougher than me. That's what "sensible mitigation" and personal responsibility means to me. Until this is over I will view my social obligation to reduce spread as outweighing whatever obligation people might think I have to keep local businesses alive. I'll do what I can but it's NOT a higher priority than me personally avoiding catching da shit.

A word on the "anti-elitism" and "anti-expert" populism that's come to dominate today's politics. The experts aren't always wrong; the guy who changes your oil at Valvoline might not be the best person to ask about your gall stones either. Just because a person has a fancy degree doesn't mean they're the final authority. Just because you dropped out of high school and have a dead-end job doesn't mean you're suddenly blessed with "street smarts" that no school could ever teach.

[iam416]

lol...my doctor, a so-called expert, says I need to avoid alcohol because my liver is shot, but I say...who the fuck put YOU in charge? I don't remember electing you to anything, asshole. I punched him in his dumb face and went out and drank a fifth of bourbon

Now they say I have 48 hours. Pffft, experts.

Choose your sass more wisely.

[Dr. Strangelove]

Choose your sass more wisely.

Hyperbole related to the general "I hates them elites" tone of Jeff's post. So shoot me.

[Jeff Buchanan]

I repeat what I said last week. Vaccines are coming in the near future. We should be more amenable to restrictions as a bridge through this worst season. I want schools to remain open. They are the last thing that should be closing. So to reduce social interaction, since people have proven they won't do it voluntarily, YES, reduce the number of hours bars & restaurants & clubs & gyms can remain open. YES reduce the allowed capacity. Give them financial compensation to help the businesses survive. Encourage people, even young people, to maybe not go out as much and maybe not for as long. We only have a few months to go at this point. It's not "life changed forever" any more.

DSL, I get your take and you and I don't substantially disagree. There's no doubt that restricting social interactions and access to congregate settings reduces the spread of the virus. What is absolutely not clear is how extensive do these measures need to be and at what point in implementing them do I reduce the spread of the virus sufficiently to offset the social and economic costs of implementing them.

This is where you and I depart in our approach. If an official can't tell me the answer to those questions, I'm going to disregard most of what he's telling me to do and, if I can, I will go where I want to go, by any conveyance I choose and see whomever I want to see. TBH, I consider officialdom, to include the elite expert class that is advising them, overreaching and impinging on important individual rights that I'm guaranteed as an American. Alito has warned about this sort of shit.

Look, yes, there is a PH emergency but there is a point at which officials need to be able to provide concrete support for a restriction they are planning on implementing. Whitmer is a perfect example of a Governor overreaching and the courts have told her to GTFO ..... this is good. I will allow that if the Trump administration had done a better job with testing, reporting and logistics out of the gate, we wouldn't be having this discussion. He didn't and we are where we are. At this point I seriously doubt the utility of half-assed restrictions - the ones that include partial this or partial that or limiting hours or any number of restrictions that aren't going to do shit. They are feel good measures for the officials wrongly implementing them and I am generally opposed to them.

A total lock-down for an extended period WOULD work but the costs would be staggering. You know this. I know this. So lets face up to the reality that grandma is going to have a tough time over the next 90d, right? So, protect this cohort to the extent that is reasonable and is proven to work..... take personal responsibility for protecting yourself, limit access to places where at risk individuals, to include both old and young people, are housed and put them on the list of the first to receive vaccines this month. Other than that, everyone else go about your business pretty much as usual.

[iam416]

A word on the "anti-elitism" and "anti-expert" populism that's come to dominate today's politics. The experts aren't always wrong; the guy who changes your oil at Valvoline might not be the best person to ask about your gall stones either. Just because a person has a fancy degree doesn't mean they're the final authority. Just because you dropped out of high school and have a dead-end job doesn't mean you're suddenly blessed with "street smarts" that no school could ever teach.

A word on elitism and experts and #TrustScience that's come to dominate today's politics. Science isn't policy. Science and experts and elites are one component of policy. Science advises us, in the case of Covid, of certain risks. Other costs and risks also factor into the equation. Government and the people then make decisions that they think are best. The elevationof #Science to some sort of godlike be all end all of any policy discussion is (a) entirely emblatic of the technocratic left; and (b) a reason why people push back.

#TrustScience is a way to shutdown debate. Full Stop. It's a way for experts and elites to stop consideration of all the other factors that going into a policy decision.

It's the new RACIST!!!!! card for the left in terms of trying to push their agenda without opposition.

[Dr. Strangelove]

A word on elitism and experts and #TrustScience that's come to dominate today's politics. Science isn't policy. Science and experts and elites are one component of policy. Science advises us, in the case of Covid, of certain risks. Other costs and risks also factor into the equation. Government and the people then make decisions that they think are best. The elevationof #Science to some sort of godlike be all end all of any policy discussion is (a) entirely emblatic of the technocratic left; and (b) a reason why people push back.

#TrustScience is a way to shutdown debate. Full Stop. It's a way for experts and elites to stop consideration of all the other factors that going into a policy decision.

It's the new RACIST!!!!! card for the left in terms of trying to push their agenda without opposition.

Yeah but this isn't some new thing. It's a recurring theme in American politics and we're at a crest. Some people will just fight against ANY appeal to authority. And others distrust all technological advancements. And I think that cuts across ideological lines. The anti-vaxxers are a good example of that.

[Jeff Buchanan]

BTW, Talent and I, along with Wiz and a few others are going to go right along patting each other on the backs for our COFID takes while those who disagree with our takes will do so. I admire DSL for articulating his views on COVID spread and how to deal with it.

We're going to disagree and that's fine. I approach the start of every day with a read of this forum ...... way better than the media as a single source to catch up and hear both sides of most issues.

[Dr. Strangelove]

Anyways, here's genius attorney Lin Wood calling on Republicans to boycott the Georgia runoffs because Loeffler and Perdue aren't doing enough to support Trump. Wood is a rightwing darling. He represented Nicholas Sandman, he's helped Kyle Rittenhouse, he represented Herman Cain in the past....

Godspeed, Mr. Wood. Godspeed

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8976193/Trump-attorney-Lin-Wood-says-Republicans-withhold-votes-Georgia-primary.html

[iam416]

Yeah but this isn't some new thing. It's a recurring theme in American politics and we're at a crest. Some people will just fight against ANY appeal to authority. And others distrust all technological advancements. And I think that cuts across ideological lines. The anti-vaxxers are a good example of that.

In general, yeah, Americans are extremely distrustful of authority. We're not South Korea or China. We are skeptics. Sometimes to our detriment, but I'd rather error on the side of making the authority win the policy debate than simply swallowing whole hog what "experts" say.

I'm not particularly sure your examples are relevant as they are examples of weird little outcrops on issues where there is, in fact, wide consensus.

But, certainly on a number of issues Americans will, most definitely, push back.

[lineygoblue]

Some people will just fight against ANY appeal to authority.

Would it be fair to say that there are a lot of people in authority (of all political stripes) who have brought this attitude on themselves?

You can probably give a Jeff size response of how bad Trump and his allies have done this.

I can respond the same way with the silliness of people like Pelosi, Schumer, Nadler and others.

So, can we fairly say that its understandable why so many people feel they must rebel against those in authority?

[WingsFan]

I was going to fork over the 49.00$ (and im sure I still will ) for the Mike Tyson vs Roy jones fight Saturday, but the rules are very disappointing.


8 two minute rounds

12-ounce gloves

NO KOs

No Cuts

No judges to score the action. there won't be a winner

California State Athletic Commission executive director Andy Forster - "They can move around and make some money"





I just hope Tyson gets in there and says F' that im knocking this F'ker out in the first.