Miscellaneous And Off Topic Subjects

[froot loops]

Also, as I’ve said numerous times, messaging and leading was the primary job of the President during covid. There wasn’t a great deal of policy choices to be made. But messaging and leadership were the job of the President and they were vitally important. And there’s no excuse for how badly PDJT failed on this front.

I just found his whole leadership of this to be extremely befuddling. Basically any replacement level politician from either side of the aisle would be about a thousand percent better.

[Whitley]

Then barring a split in the Democratic party, they still have a decision to make. Move more toward the childish AOC and her idiot supporters, or move closer to people like Slotkin, Dingell and even R's like Mitt, McCain supporters and Susan Collins. The more they move toward the center, the better chance they have of staying in power. Moving toward the hate-filled, prison closing, police eliminating speech of the BLM and Antifa isn't going to get it done.

But, what do I know? I'm just a retired truck driver from Shiawassee County Michigan.

1) No one is trying to eliminate the police. That is a republican talking point. There is a legitimate question though with regards to police on two aspects though. 1) Do they need all this funding or would that funding be better spent using it in the community so situations do not get the point where you need to call the police. A lot of jails/prisons are used to basically house the mentally ill. There should be funding so the mentally ill have a place where they could be cared for.

2) If you are having a decrease in prisoners (like Michigan is having) there is not the need to have all these prisons. If you don't have the prisoners to keep them open then they should be closed down. Michigan has seen a decrease in repeat offenders (26.7% repeat offenders---lowest in state history) that is a good thing.

[lineygoblue]

1) No one is trying to eliminate the police. That is a republican talking point.

That's just not true. Its not a talking point. Its a stated goal of the BLM and of Antifa. They believe community leaders can replace police departments to better deal with the issues in the cities. Not sure how community leaders are supposed to deal with murderers, rapists, child molesters and thieves, but letting community leaders deal with them ain't the answer.

Do some cities need to look at their police departments and change some policies on how they deal with people? Sure. I'll buy that. But you don't eliminate law enforcement.

I'd have no problem with states re-establishing homes for the mentally ill, instead of incarcerating them. But even if one is mentally ill, they should not avoid incarceration if they commit crimes.

I have no problem with shutting down prisons if there are no criminals to put in there. I'm just not convinced that the numbers reflect that. You say that repeat offender numbers are down, but yet we still have a lot of people in prison. Yes, I know... because the system is racist ... got it.

The elimination of law enforcement and prisons is not the answer to social justice issues. The problem is in the hearts of individuals who believe they should be able to murder, rape, burn, steal, and assault others, and get away with it. Those types of people cannot be allowed to walk freely in society.

[Ghengis Jon]

No one is going to eliminate law enforcement. You're adding weight to the words of emotional blowhards from groups you disagree with. Do you agree with Mark LeVigne that "American Leftists" should be put into death camps "for what they've done to this country"? That's hyperbole. No different different from the hyperbolic goals of BLM.

Trouble is, people can not (or will not) differentiate between hyperbole and reality. Before election day, we had about 6 open carrying Trumpsters walking around old Holly talking about how the election could be stolen and that blood will run in the streets if that happened. Some of the antique stores boarded up for 2 days because of these clowns.

I don't think you'll find much disagreement about police reform and re-establishing the state mental health system. Don't take the hyperbole to heart, law enforcement isn't going anywhere. Thankfully.

[iam416]

The problem with "Defund the Police" is that it's meaning is clear AND a lot of elected Ds were saying (albeit, none too high profile). And, in fact, a city government actually moved on it. That's not hyperbole. That's tangible governmental action. So, you can pick out some nutjob on the right and say, "but, but, but" and pretend that "Defund the Police" was just 1 nutjob on the Left if you want. But, man, you're whistling past the fucking graveyard.

Now, the Ds got thew words they choose shoved up their ass sideways, so I think you'll these words go by the waydside. But the notion that that this was some sort of R-created talking point is utter bullshit. Take an ounce of goddamn responbility. Realize that we are in a "national" phase of politics where politicians of all stripes affect the brand of your party.

Also, credit to the Rs for conjuring up riots and talking about those, too.

In any event, D cities are going cutting funds to police (not defunding) and they'll act perplexed when crime increases.

[iam416]

I mean, to be clear -- Minneapolis voted to abolish its police department. Not reduce funds. ABOLISH. Of course, reality set in and a few days ago they voted to add police. The mayor's quote:

“Minneapolis, like local governments across this country, is grappling with competing crises – combating a global pandemic, weathering an economic downturn, and pursuing racial justice. And at the same time, neighborhoods across our city have endured an intolerable level of gun violence and crime.

“Today we sent a clear signal that we will support Chief Arradondo and that we are ready to work collaboratively with our law enforcement partners and neighboring jurisdictions while continuing to implement concrete, transformative public safety measures.”

Yeah, that whole "defund the police" line really worked out for you. Oh, wait. I'm sorry. It was all a genius R-planted ploy.

[iam416]

I believe if Trump handles Covid 19 well he would have landslided to reelection. But instead he ran away from any responsibility and missed the opportunity.

A lot of people feel that the government does not work for them, or even cares about them (especially in the working class and lower economic tiers). Trump, the first time around, played on that talking about how these trade deals were awful for them (same thing Bernie talked about as well) and screwed them over. He tapped into the anger that is out there. 4 years in Washington really dulled his political instincts and Trump became a standard establishment Republican (with the exception of his tweets).

Using the same playbook that they used against HRC didn't work this time for a couple reasons:

1) Biden is a likeable guy. He is very human and empathetic in ways that is just not in HRC. You may disagree with his politics, but not many people are going to say that he is a bad guy. Now, Biden is not at the top of his game and his policies (Over the course of his career) have not been very good for middle class or lower but he still has that patina.

2) Biden was part of the team that helped the country out of the Great Recession (you can argue if they did enough---I don't think they did) so the rust belt states have a much higher opinion of him than HRC

3) While Biden lacked a ground game--- he was much more judicious on sending people to the right spots. I mean HRC sent Bill Clinton into Michigan which was about as tone deaf as you could be considering that NAFTA really cost a lot of auto jobs throughout the rust belt.

4) Biden projects competence and calm (for the most part) after the chaos going on with covid 19---a lot of people just wanted the fires put out.

Your first and last sentence are 100% correct. The rest is debatable but fair, IMO.

The one point I definitely disagree with is the suggestion that PDJT didn't tap into the working class vote this go around. I think he may have tapped into it even more than he did in 2016. He received over 73M votes. He crushed working class votes. However, he was annhilated in the suburbs by Professional Class voters that very much wanted (4). This was really a working class vs. professional class election at bottom. We can talk about Latinos and AAs, but those swings, while noteworthy, didn't determine the election. The election was won when the surburban professional class voted bigly for Biden. That's Georiga and Arizona and Pennsylvania.

[Jeff Buchanan]

The election was won when the surburban professional class voted bigly for Biden.

Generally correct. FL wasn't so much that as it was precincts outside of Palm Beach, Broward and Miami Dade counties - all solidly D - voting for law and order, immigration control and anti-globalization (in their minds MAGA).

The West FL and rural FL vote swamped FL's big city votes for Biden. Not surprising having driven around most of those spots more than a few times. These folks loved Trump even with all his warts.

[Dr. Strangelove]

Some people vote for Trump because of his policies (witch are significantly different than a 'traditional' Republican, btw). Others, and they are a sizeable group, are what I've called the 'nihilists', although maybe there's a better name for them. These people don't care about policy and their vote for Trump is tied to his attitude. He pisses off the right people.

[Dr. Strangelove]

Weird fact but Hillary won more counties in Georgia than Biden did. But where Hillary won by single digits in Cobb and Gwinett Counties (Atlanta burbs), Biden won by double-digits. Biden won the latter by 18 points!

[iam416]

These people don't care about policy and their vote for Trump is tied to his attitude. He pisses off the right people.

They view him as firewall against the Left's most rampant idiocy, and I'm not unsympathetic to that view. However, there's a way to do that AND retain surburban voters. PDJT didn't thread that needle or even come close.

The Rs have their own problems and I'm happy to discuss. But, for the Ds, I think their fundamental problem is that politics is far more national than it ever was. What's said in Minneapolis or the Bronx attaches to the "D". The suffer session apologies for utterly innocuous shit attaches to the "D." People can pretend these things are just "R talking points" or whatever, but voters see through that bullshit. There's a very big gap between what D-voters in the Bronx want vs what D-voters in Gwinnet County want.

As I've said, they managed to hold together thanks almost entirely to their unifying hatred of PDJT. I can't imagine them not coming at least a little unstuck w/o him to galvanize the diverse interests of the party.

[Dr. Strangelove]

Luckily for the Dems in the near future that Trump has every intention of remaining the face of the Republican Party until he croaks.

EDIT: There's a lot of patient Republicans who are tearing their hair out over Trump's threats to run in 2024.

[iam416]

Correct on both counts.

[Jeff Buchanan]

Luckily for the Dems in the near future that Trump has every intention of remaining the face of the Republican Party until he croaks.

From Prison no less .........

[AlabamAlum]

Ugh. No more Trump. But assuming Kamala is the dem candidate, DJT would probably win.