Miscellaneous And Off Topic Subjects

[Dr. Strangelove]

throw in the fact he had every right to be there and be armed. theres footage of him trying to put out fires and scrubbing graffiti off the wall of his high school.

I think trump held ACB as his nominee for just this moment--knowng ginsberg was likely the high on the list for dead pool candidates you hold her in reserve and get kavanugh through the process

but she's gonna be brutalized over her faith they got nothing else

far as roe versus wade whether it was wrong o not in the original decision most agree the first 4 mos it should be choice. after that you can't abort whether its a little wizard or not

Just for the record the conservative majority in a lot of states is not trying to limit abortion to a sensible limit that most ordinary people can agree on (end of first trimester). They want abortion outlawed totally except in only the most extreme threats to the mother's health. And the bills they are passing are explicitly meant to challenge Roe and make these the law of the land in certain states. The law passed in Alabama, by an overwhelming majority, would've outlawed abortion at any stage including cases of incest and rape. Only if there was no doubt the mother's life was in danger could you abort.

[CGVT]

" as roe versus wade whether it was wrong o not in the original decision most agree the first 4 mos it should be choice. after that you can't abort whether its a little wizard or not"

If the choice is between my wife and my unborn eight month unborn baby, the baby is dead. Or my wife's life is in danger because of the pregnancy and the child won't live after birth anyway

That is what the late term abortion is about. Not some random "Oh fuck, I guess I don't want this baby that I've been carrying for the past eight months, let's abort it and sell the parts" bullshit that the right wants you to believe.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/us-policy/2019/02/06/tough-questions-answers-late-term-abortions-law-women-who-get-them/

[iam416]

You’re just wrong. Almost all later term abortions are elective. They’re a small percentage of total abortions, but still a substantial number.

Whether you think third trimester babies merit protection is up to you. But, if you don’t then don’t walk through NICU.

[iam416]

Strangelove, of course, is correct in what some states are doing in terms of enacting obviously unconstitutional laws. Those laws get struck down and we carry on. It’s a ridiculous song and dance. But, at the end of the day, first trimester abortion is in no real danger. Up to 20 weeks is safe.

But, the Ds will invariably offer prophecies of despair.

[iam416]

Finally, I’ve been told pro-choice is hugely popular and that most Rs support some sort of rights. So, on the 1 in a Million chance the Court throws the issue to the states then you’ll see the Ds turn purplish states blue. I’m talking Texas, Ohio, NC, Georgia. They’ll end up with complete political dominance and could almost assuredly pass Federal laws protecting the right.

You know — the way government should work — legislators legislating.

[Dr. Strangelove]

I'm being lazy and not looking for for more recent data but in 2016, 91% of all abortions were performed in the first 13 weeks of pregnancy (first trimester basically). Another 7.7% were performed in weeks 14-20.

So most of the most extreme rancor over late-term abortions is in response to less than 2% of the total cases.

This is why the religious conservatives in some states aren't satisfied with simply banning the late stuff. They exaggerate the numbers of late-stage abortions to win people to their cause but they know full well it's in the early weeks that most abortions occur and they want all those stopped too.

https://www.cdc.gov/reproductivehealth/data_stats/abortion.htm

[iam416]

Right. Well, 8000, I guess is a big number in some contexts but not others? (Some estimate 12000).

There’s a reason people use less than 2% instead of 8,000. And there’s also a reason why most Ds won’t condemn the practice. HRC, e.g., refused.

[Hannibal]

Just for the record the conservative majority in a lot of states is not trying to limit abortion to a sensible limit that most ordinary people can agree on (end of first trimester). They want abortion outlawed totally except in only the most extreme threats to the mother's health. And the bills they are passing are explicitly meant to challenge Roe and make these the law of the land in certain states. The law passed in Alabama, by an overwhelming majority, would've outlawed abortion at any stage including cases of incest and rape. Only if there was no doubt the mother's life was in danger could you abort.

If Roe vs. Wade is overturned, Alabama will be one of the states that bans it. But nobody in B1G country or PAC-12 country will. The majority of the population will live in a state where it's legal. It will work like it's supposed to work.

[Dr. Strangelove]

Either way the debate is waaaaay disproportionate. We're arguing most fiercely over what should happen to 2% of the cases.

Meanwhile I think nearly all of us here are okay with first trimester, which is around 90% of abortions probably most years. But laws like those passed in Alabama would outlaw nearly all of them and make doctors who perform a Week 7 abortion guilty of a 1st degree felony subject to life imprisonment.

[iam416]

We argue about the 8000 because Ds think you can kill your baby up until god knows when. So, there’s disagreement. Further, past 21 weeks is all we can argue about. There are no enforceable laws prohibiting first trimester abortion. Period. So, we argue over what we disagree about and what we can actually pass legislation to address.

Very straightforward.

[Dr. Strangelove]

We argue about the 8000 because Ds think you can kill your baby up until god knows when. So, there’s disagreement. Further, past 21 weeks is all we can argue about. There are no enforceable laws prohibiting first trimester abortion. Period. So, we argue over what we disagree about and what we can actually pass legislation to address.

Very straightforward.

Well see we have some disagreement then. You act like only the Dems are causing any disagreement over the abortion issue and it's solely because they are fighting for unrestricted abortion, anywhere, anyplace. Without their unreasonable insistence for 3rd term abortions there would be a happy unanimity in this country..

Meanwhile actual state legislatures are passing laws, with 3-to-1 majorities, that would ban nearly all abortions, period. And you feel no need to call those people out as extremists because it's a "sure thing" the Supreme Court will eventually slap those people down. Um, but it's not. The Louisiana law and the Texas law before it were a little more sophisticated and not so explicit, but they would have effectively over-legislated abortion clinics out of existence. And 5 out of 8 living Supreme Court justices would've been okay with the Texas law. Roberts only turned on the Louisiana law because his belief in following precedent exceeds even his anti-Roe views. The next nominee, who is a lock for confirmation, will not carry that burden.

[AlabamAlum]

Honestly, imo, the vast majority of abortions past the first 15 weeks should be disallowed. While, I am not for an absolute ban on weeks 16, and later, it should completely center around provable fetal viability. A 17w ectopic, placental rupture, late-discovered gross and severe abnormalities (eg, encephalocele), etc, etc.

[iam416]

Read my posts, DSL. My responses have been posted. Unenforceable laws. Potentially huge political gains for Ds. Etc. When one of these first trimester laws is upheld I’ll start to care.

[lineygoblue]

Elective abortions will never go away, even if R's managed to get 8 justices on the USSC. The "worst" that would happen for D's is that the issue would be thrown back to the states, who would make their own laws, which, IMO, is how it should be. If a majority of the people in a state don't want legalized and unrestricted abortions, they should be able to decide that for themselves. If states like NY and California want to kill living babies all the way up to and including labor and delivery, that's on them. That's something they'll have to answer to their Creator for.

I am pro-life, but I think there may be a window for a woman to terminate an unwanted/unadvisable pregnancy within a few weeks, emphasis on "few". I'm talking zygote stage, not full brain and heart activity stage. But some of my Christian friends would vehemently disagree with me on that. But I'll never, ever agree with a pro-choicer that all we are talking about is a 'blob of cells" all the way up to labor and delivery. I don't see how anyone can do that, but that's just me.

So I guess when Dems seize control of Congress and the WH, what they will do is pack 3 more members on the USSC to give them an overwhelming majority to force their will on the rest of us. Then, when things swing back to the R's again, they'll add 4 seats to the courts, to swing it back.

So maybe when my grandson is an adult, we should have about 35-40 justices on the Court. That should be interesting.

[Dr. Strangelove]

So in the interests of balance, two bad polls for Biden out this morning. WP/ABC polls have him losing in both Arizona and Florida or at least among LV. He's leading among RV but everyone generally feels LV polls are more accurate. From what I can tell this is the first Arizona poll, from any pollster, to show Trump ahead since early August.

Very worrisome but could be an outlier. Would hope to see some other polling in both places soon.