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**Dr. Strangelove** · September 10, 2020, 09:16 AM

A significant portion of Trump voters are people who were still voting Democrat in the mid-90's-early 2000's. He brought new people in and lost some 'traditional' Republican voters in exchange.

**iam416** · September 10, 2020, 09:16 AM

Biden seems very much ideologically similar to Bill Clinton. A more palatable candidate were this a different time. But now he's an empty suit, and so is Harris. The leaders of the Democrat party are AOC, Ilhan Omar, BLM, Bernie Sanders, and Antifa. If you vote for BIden, you are voting for those folks. Period.

Yeah, that's where I ALMOST am.

**THE_WIZARD_** · September 10, 2020, 09:19 AM

Bingo.

**Mike** · September 10, 2020, 09:30 AM

Originally posted by Hannibal View Post

Biden seems very much ideologically similar to Bill Clinton. A more palatable candidate were this a different time. But now he's an empty suit, and so is Harris. The leaders of the Democrat party are AOC, Ilhan Omar, BLM, Bernie Sanders, and Antifa. If you vote for Biden, you are voting for those folks. Period.

This is why I plan to vote straight R, other than Biden, in an attempt to temper the pendulum swing back to the left. If it weren't for Trump being so singularly awful, my vote for president would be a no-brainer. Seriously, put any of the 15 most popular national Republicans on the top of the ticket and I'm checking straight R and submitting my ballot. But as much as I despise Trump, hate rather, I can only take so much woke BLM/Antifa shit. This election is truly awful as fuck.

**iam416** · September 10, 2020, 09:40 AM

It makes me just want to shoot The Wizard and stab AlabamAlum with a pitchfork.

**lineygoblue** · September 10, 2020, 09:42 AM

Biden seems very much ideologically similar to Bill Clinton. A more palatable candidate were this a different time.

A different time is the key here. If we were talking about 2008 Joe Biden, then I'd probably hold my nose and vote for him over Trump. I'd figure that I'd give him 4 years then hope that the Republicans run somebody better 4 years later. If Biden didn't have to kowtow to Obama's policies, he'd be at least minimally acceptable in my view, over Trump.

But, Joe isn't going to be ALLOWED to be President. He's going to be beholden to all these little special interest groups that get him there. He will be a paper President only. Kamala, Chuck and Nancy will be the real leadership. Fun days ahead!!!

**lineygoblue** · September 10, 2020, 09:43 AM

Originally posted by iam416 View Post

It makes me just want to shoot The Wizard and stab AlabamAlum with a pitchfork.

I will provide the gun and the pitchfork

**THE_WIZARD_** · September 10, 2020, 09:49 AM

Originally posted by iam416 View Post

It makes me just want to shoot The Wizard and stab AlabamAlum with a pitchfork.

You are all wrong. The pitchfork is meant for the tractor fucker...

**Jeff Buchanan** · September 10, 2020, 10:09 AM

Originally posted by lineygoblue View Post

A different time is the key here. If we were talking about 2008 Joe Biden, then I'd probably hold my nose and vote for him over Trump. ......But, Joe isn't going to be ALLOWED to be President. He's going to be beholden to all these little special interest groups that get him there. He will be a paper President only. Kamala, Chuck and Nancy will be the real leadership. Fun days ahead!!!

I sense you're working real hard to rationalize your vote for Trump despite the immense damage to US global prestige and influence he is directly responsible for during his four years as president. His behavior does not comport with that required for the office of president. The damage his presidency has wrought to the social and economic circumstances of the 5 month long COVID crisis are unprecedented in the ledger of handling of a multitude of historical crisis faced by American presidents. None of that is arguable despite a number of sensible policies his administration has implemented and that he can claim credit for. NONE. On balance, I just don't see how anyone can support a continuation of his presidency for another 4 years ...... but that's why we have elections.

**Hannibal** · September 10, 2020, 10:39 AM

Originally posted by Mike View Post

This is why I plan to vote straight R, other than Biden, in an attempt to temper the pendulum swing back to the left. If it weren't for Trump being so singularly awful, my vote for president would be a no-brainer. Seriously, put any of the 15 most popular national Republicans on the top of the ticket and I'm checking straight R and submitting my ballot. But as much as I despise Trump, hate rather, I can only take so much woke BLM/Antifa shit. This election is truly awful as fuck.

I see your logic, but the greatest referendum on the agenda of the Left is the vote for President. The Left has to be defeated, and not just defeated, but humiliated. Trump's identity is too closely entwined with backlash against SJWs and PC culture that even if he is defeated because of his personality, it will be spun universally as a victory for BLM and Antifa.

**Jeff Buchanan** · September 10, 2020, 11:06 AM

Originally posted by Hannibal View Post

I see your logic, but the greatest referendum on the agenda of the Left is the vote for President. The Left has to be defeated, and not just defeated, but humiliated. Trump's identity is too closely entwined with backlash against SJWs and PC culture that even if he is defeated because of his personality, it will be spun universally as a victory for BLM and Antifa.

I don't disagree with this ...... are you saying that the only way to prevent the outcome you predict and it's implied sequellae is to vote for Trump?

I remain less convinced that Harris can, along with the other two Ds, Peolsi and Schummer, implement a radical left agenda or even subtly, as some have suggested, change the course of the American body politic towards a Sanders or worse sort of socialism. There are still foundational checks and balances that will more than likely prevent that from occurring. I do see the risk but I think it is being over-played.

**Dr. Strangelove** · September 10, 2020, 11:08 AM

lol...Treasury Dept has placed sanctions on Andriy Derkach, a pro-Russian Ukrainian lawmaker. This shitbird is the source of most of Rudy Giuliani's "dirt" on Biden. The US Treasury says he's been an active Russian agent for over a decade.

*****************

From at least late 2019 through mid-2020, Derkach waged a covert influence campaign centered on cultivating false and unsubstantiated narratives concerning U.S. officials in the upcoming 2020 Presidential Election, spurring corruption investigations in both Ukraine and the United States designed to culminate prior to election day. Derkach’s unsubstantiated narratives were pushed in Western media through coverage of press conferences and other news events, including interviews and statements.

Between May and July 2020, Derkach released edited audio tapes and other unsupported information with the intent to discredit U.S. officials, and he levied unsubstantiated allegations against U.S. and international political figures. Derkach almost certainly targeted the U.S. voting populace, prominent U.S. persons, and members of the U.S. government, based on his reliance on U.S. platforms, English-language documents and videos, and pro-Russian lobbyists in the United States used to propagate his claims.

Treasury Sanctions Russia-Linked Election Interference Actors

https://home.treasury.gov/news/press-releases/sm1118

Washington – Today, the Department of the Treasury’s Office of Foreign Assets Control (OFAC) designated four Russia-linked individuals for attempting to influence the U.S. electoral process. Russia uses a variety of proxies to attempt to sow discord between political parties and drive internal divisions to influence voters as part of Moscow’s broader efforts to undermine democratic countries and institutions. In the United States, Russia has used a wide range of influence methods and actors to target our electoral process, including targeting U.S. presidential candidates. Treasury designated Andrii Derkach (Derkach) pursuant to Executive Order (E.O.) 13848 for his efforts to influence the 2020 U.S. presidential election. Derkach, a Member of the Ukrainian Parliament, has been an active Russian agent for over a decade, maintaining close connections with the Russian Intelligence Services. Derkach has directly or indirectly engaged in, sponsored, concealed, or otherwise been complicit in foreign interference in an attempt to undermine the upcoming 2020 U.S. presidential election. Today’s designation of Derkach is focused on exposing Russian malign influence campaigns and protecting our upcoming elections from foreign interference. This action is a clear signal to Moscow and its proxies that this activity will not be tolerated. The Administration is working across the U.S. Government, and with state, local, and private sector partners, to make the 2020 election secure. “Andrii Derkach and other Russian agents employ manipulation and deceit to attempt to influence elections in the United States and elsewhere around the world,” said Secretary Steven T. Mnuchin. “The United States will continue to use all the tools at its disposal to counter these Russian disinformation campaigns and uphold the integrity of our election system.” Derkach’s Election Influence Efforts From at least late 2019 through mid-2020, Derkach waged a covert influence campaign centered on cultivating false and unsubstantiated narratives concerning U.S. officials in the upcoming 2020 Presidential Election, spurring corruption investigations in both Ukraine and the United States designed to culminate prior to election day. Derkach’s unsubstantiated narratives were pushed in Western media through coverage of press conferences and other news events, including interviews and statements. Between May and July 2020, Derkach released edited audio tapes and other unsupported information with the intent to discredit U.S. officials, and he levied unsubstantiated allegations against U.S. and international political figures. Derkach almost certainly targeted the U.S. voting populace, prominent U.S. persons, and members of the U.S. government, based on his reliance on U.S. platforms, English-language documents and videos, and pro-Russian lobbyists in the United States used to propagate his claims. Treasury Continues to Hold Russian Actors Accountable Today’s designation of Derkach is another example of the Treasury department promoting accountability for Kremlin-linked individuals seeking to undermine confidence in U.S. democratic processes. Treasury has previously designated the Russian troll factory known as the Internet Research Agency (IRA), and its Russian financier Yevgeniy Prigozhin. Prigozhin has been designated by the United States pursuant to E.O. 13661, E.O. 13694, as amended, and most recently by E.O. 13848 for providing material support to the IRA’s influence activities against the 2018 U.S. midterm elections. Today, Treasury also designated three IRA actors pursuant to E.O. 13694, as amended by E.O. 13757, and E.O. 13848 for having acted or purported to act for or on behalf of, directly or indirectly, the IRA, an entity designated pursuant to E.O. 13694, as amended, and E.O. 13848. Russian nationals Artem Lifshits, Anton Andreyev, and Darya Aslanova, as employees of the IRA, supported the IRA’s cryptocurrency accounts. The IRA uses cryptocurrency to fund activities in furtherance of their ongoing malign influence operations around the world. OFAC coordinated today’s action against the IRA with the U.S. Attorney’s Office for the Eastern District of Virginia and the United States Secret Service. As a result of today’s designations, all property and interests in property of these targets that are subject to U.S. jurisdiction are blocked, and U.S. persons are generally prohibited from engaging in transactions with them. Additionally, any entities 50 percent or more owned by one or more designated persons are also blocked. View identifying information on the individuals designated today.

**lineygoblue** · September 10, 2020, 12:42 PM

I sense you're working real hard to rationalize your vote for Trump despite the immense damage to US global prestige and influence he is directly responsible for during his four years as president.

I don't think I really need to defend my 2016 vote for Trump, for the reasons I've stated. Hillary Clinton was not a suitable option under any circumstances. She went out of her way to alienate people like me, and it cost her the election. Shame on the woman that looks back at her in the mirror.

A funny thought occurred to me as I considered my answer here. Would anyone here be surprised if Trump wins in 2020, to see Hillary run again in 2024? She would only be 76, and Joe Biden is running at 77. She feels she's entitled to be President, and she's not going away. Maybe she will "give us all the chance to right a terrible wrong".

As for 2020, I haven't decided if I'm even going to vote yet. I don't like Trump's behavior, but I do like a few of the things he's done, as I've stated in here before. No need to cover all that again. I'm not comfortable voting for Biden, because he will not be allowed to be the true President. The country will be run by Kamala, Nancy and Chuck. I have absolutely no confidence or respect for any of them. They've done nothing to earn my respect. If I vote at all, I may leave the President part of the ballot blank, and just vote on the state and local parts.

**iam416** · September 10, 2020, 12:49 PM

Never has a poll so accurately summed up the November shit sandwich: https://www.cnbc.com/2020/09/10/2020...president.html

Swing State voters think both candidates are mentally unfit.

**Mike** · September 10, 2020, 12:50 PM

Would anyone here be surprised if Trump wins in 2020, to see Hillary run again in 2024?

Harbaugh will be gunning for his fourth national championship at Michigan before she ever convenes an "exploratory committee". 2016 was the end of the Clinton political machine.

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