Miscellaneous And Off Topic Subjects

[Dr. Strangelove]

Thanks Jon

Iran is officially admitting it shot down the plane.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-51073621

[Whitley]

Disagree. You think a lot of left-wingers will stay home in protest? They are more likely to vote for Biden, IMO, than suburban middle-class housewives will vote for Bernie Sanders. Biden can look confused as fuck on stage with Trump and unless he pisses himself I don't think it'll matter much. The vote is going to be a referendum on Trump. And Trump himself will insist it be that, because he couldn't stand to have it be otherwise.

Remember -- in 2016, among people who disliked both candidates, Trump did very well. This time the roles have reversed. Polls have been consistently showing that Biden is winning people who don't like him by a margin even bigger than Trump won last time.

I saw this playbook back in 2016. Biden has told, at his very first high dollar fundraiser, his donors don't worry nothing will change if I am president. Biden, when he is lucid, has already said that he has no empathy for people with crushing student loan debt. He has yet to have a good debate. Hell the whole 2016 HRC campaign was a referendum on Trump. How did that work out? Biden said he would consider a REPUBLICAN as his VP. WTF?

Biden was the point man that told McConnell that they would keep nearly all the Bush tax cuts. He was a driving force on making bankruptcy harder for individuals and easier for corporations. He was another driving force on the 90s crime bills.

[lineygoblue]

Thanks Jon

Iran is officially admitting it shot down the plane.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-51073621

... and they blamed the US for the situation ... which was undoubtedly lapped up by CNN, MSNBC and ABC/Disney.

[Jeff Buchanan]

I would not want the US to simply lie and make up evidence to make Iran look bad if that's what you're suggesting. However, that's not what I think happened here. I think a jittery SAM unit shot it down....................

I was suggesting that. Disinformation is a classic form of psychological warfare. It would be easy to doctor video to make it appear that missiles impacted the 737. War is dirty business.

However, it turns out that the video was real and who took it would be an interesting question. What is someone doing awake at 6am taking a (cell phone??) video of a lone aircraft taking off from a nearby airport. It's a bit disquieting that it sounds like someone near enough to the mic laughs at the fireball. Maybe whoever shot the video (an Iranian??) thought it was a shoot down of an enemy target (aircraft or cruise missile) and was sort-of cheering it. Lots of questions though about who shot the video and how it got into the public domain as quickly as it did.

I do think the US's public and very quick release of the first video we saw of the shoot-down and confirmatory evidence (SIGINT AND COMINT) that it was an Iranian missile that shot the 737 down was purposeful and intended to shit on Iran. Very effective.

As for the admission, as was previously speculated, continuing to deny the shoot-down was a loosing strategy. It appears the Iranians were willing to take the hit instead of lie about it. They should get no sympathy for the admission but of course they will and the headlines will read it's Trump's fault ...... that has already started as an underlying official complaint from Iranian spokesmen. It's not the lead item in the story I just read. Human error is. But near the end of the official report, "American adventurism" is mentioned as a contributing factor.

The counterargument, of course, should be if Iran hadn't been building nukes in violation of a bad arms treaty that made that possible the US might not be so actively pursuing it's policy of strangling the Mullhs economically and financially. Or If Iran wasn't messing around via the IRG/Qods Force and their proxies in other ME countries with the intent of destabilizing the governments of those countries as well as striking directly at US strategic interest in the region, Americans might not be there.

Look, it is undeniable that Iran wants to be the main regional power in the ME, wants nukes to enforce that status and in doing so dictate policy - mostly based on Fundamentalist, Shia interpretation of Islamic law and governance - to Iraq, Syria, Lebanon, Libya, Oman and Yemen. In accomplishing that goal, Iran effectively isolates Israel, SA and the Gulf States (predominantly Sunni) and limits their regional influence while sticking it to US allies who provide basing rights or in the case of Israel, a US proxy in the form of a very capable IDF.

Should the US be all that interested in this sandbox and to the extent that it is willing to put troops at risk and be nothing but a thorn in the side of Iran? That's a good question.

[Ghengis Jon]

Very Stable Genius has been robbed of the Nobel Peace Prize...just ask him.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-51063149



The Phase 1 deal could be signed next week. This deal could return Chinese trade levels to 60% of pre-Trump levels.

https://www.aljazeera.com/ajimpact/trump-trade-deal-signed-shortly-january-15-200110044931445.html

[Dr. Strangelove]

Jeff

Lying (or as you call it, "disinformation") to escalate and deepen our involvement in a war is how we got both Vietnam and Iraq. In both cases the American government ended up having less credibility than it did previously. But hey, let's try it again, what could go wrong?

Thankfully it was pretty obvious that was NOT the case here. It was always way too big of a coincidence for me to believe this was just a plane with engine trouble on the same night Iran and the US nearly went to war.

[Dr. Strangelove]

Not hugely significant but the Middle East doesn't need more instability

Sultan Qaboos of Oman has died after a 50-year reign. He had no children and the throne is passing to his cousin. Oman doesn't get talked about as much as the other Gulf States because despite being large land-wise their population is quite small, and they don't have the same level of oil/gas as most of the others (Yemen lacks resources but by contrast has 7x the population)

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-50902476

[AlabamAlum]

Oman is the Wyoming of the ME.

I think Jeff has an Oman story. Maybe I am wrong. Something about a sword?

[iam416]

Welp, seems like the Ds are actually going to blame PDJT for Iran shooting down the plane. Opening up and swallowing the Iranian position entirely.

But, heaven forbid anyone criticize that. That would be cheap political rhetoric.

[lineygoblue]

Welp, seems like the Ds are actually going to blame PDJT for Iran shooting down the plane. Opening up and swallowing the Iranian position entirely.

I'm sad for the people who were lost due to the foolishness of the Iranian leadership, but I think in everyone's rush to blame Trump for this, there seems to be one FACT that critics are overlooking completely:

At the time the plane was shot down, the Iranians were attacking US. They were firing missiles at US. Our forces were standing by, waiting to be attacked.

But yet Iran is now blameless in the eyes of many because of ... well, ... Trump.

[lineygoblue]

I know I'm going to mess this story up, and I'm sure I'll be corrected, but I'll try anyway. I think it applies to this situation.

There was a country that decided to make a devastating weapon to attack its enemies, to settle the score once and for all.

They decided to make a huge cannon, one that would wipe out the opposition with one shot.

So they made this massive cannon, but since they didn't have enough iron and steel to make the cannon, they made it out of wood. They put hundreds of hours of planning and labor into the project, and when they finally finished it, it was one mean, nasty looking cannon.

So, comes the day they decide to fire the thing off. Critics said, "Hey, .. the cannon is made out of wood, its not going to work". The pro-cannon folks said, 'harrumph... it will work just fine, wait and see".

So, they fired that sucker off.

The cannon blew up with a massive explosion, killing and maiming people for yards around.

The pro-cannon folks came out of their safe shelters to survey the damage, and were met by the surviving critics who said, "See, we told you this would fail".

The pro-cannon folks said, "Hogwash. If the cannon caused this much damage here, can you imagine what it did to the other side?"

According to your politics you can assign the parties to whichever suits your fancy.

I see the Iranians as the pro-cannon side.

[Dr. Strangelove]

Welp, seems like the Ds are actually going to blame PDJT for Iran shooting down the plane. Opening up and swallowing the Iranian position entirely.

But, heaven forbid anyone criticize that. That would be cheap political rhetoric.

Are there specific comments you're reacting to here?

[Dr. Strangelove]

Trump boasting about how he's renting out the US military. From that notorious Communist and Gentry prog, Justin Amash

[Dr. Strangelove]

[iam416]