Miscellaneous And Off Topic Subjects

[Dr. Strangelove]

I'm not entirely clear on who manages the trial, if McConnell single-handedly runs the show, if the entire Senate votes on witnesses, if Roberts plays any role, or what.

If Roberts has ANY say at all this will not be a Republican free-for-all. Confident he would keep it to relevant witnesses only.

I mean, if Trump's team literally tries to call Pelosi as a "witness" (witness to what?), how in fuck's name would that be defensible at the same time you yourself (Trump) are refusing to testify and are probably going to still refuse to allow Mulvaney/Pompeo/Bolton to appear? And even if they show, they likely won't be allowed to answer any meaningful questions.

[iam416]

Pelosi isn't a witness. The Bidens are. Possibly your mancrush Schiff. In any event, it ain't gonna be the Ds just running roughshod. PDJT is gonna have his say.

Meanwhile, what we all sort of know: https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...blic-hearings/

Impeachment is not carrying the day where it matters.

[Dr. Strangelove]

Oh I'm well aware he's not getting removed. Do you think Pelosi or Schiff really believe that'll happen? Senate Republicans are terrified of the President's army of juggalos.

I've said from the beginning that it was still worth pursuing just to make clear that what Trump did is not acceptable. Congress should not just roll over for this. If Republicans want to beclown themselves by pretending this was all great and perfect and beg to perform a Presidential rimjob, they can knock themselves out.

[iam416]

Senate Republicans are terrified of the President's army of juggalos.

Well, that, and they're representing their constituency. This isn't a case where Rs are going to have to risk their political neck to vote against impeachment, In fact, they'd be risking their political neck, in most of their states, to vote for it -- whether PDJT sends his army of juggalos after him nor not.

It's wonderfully popular in NY and California. In Wisconsin and Ohio and Florida? Not so much.

[lineygoblue]

The lady representative (D) from Michigan who last week in a moment of rare Democrat lucidity suggested that Trump should be censured by the Congress was actually a pretty good idea. It lets them make their point about his conduct, and he pretty much cannot defend himself. Then all of those who want to be President, could hit the road and see America.

I'm not entirely clear on who manages the trial, if McConnell single-handedly runs the show, if the entire Senate votes on witnesses, if Roberts plays any role, or what.

I believe that once the charges are received by the Senate, McConnell sets the schedule, but Roberts runs the trial. I think Trump will be granted a lot of leeway once a trial begins. He'll be able to call pretty much as many witnesses as he wants. Hate him, love him, or fall somewhere in the middle, he's got the right to a fair trial, and to vigorously defend himself.

[Dr. Strangelove]

The lady representative (D) from Michigan who last week in a moment of rare Democrat lucidity suggested that Trump should be censured by the Congress was actually a pretty good idea. It lets them make their point about his conduct, and he pretty much cannot defend himself. Then all of those who want to be President, could hit the road and see America.



I believe that once the charges are received by the Senate, McConnell sets the schedule, but Roberts runs the trial. I think Trump will be granted a lot of leeway once a trial begins. He'll be able to call pretty much as many witnesses as he wants. Hate him, love him, or fall somewhere in the middle, he's got the right to a fair trial, and to vigorously defend himself.

You're right he has a right to a fair trial but even in our criminal justice system there are limits as to witnesses and testimony. Relevance matters. Trump said today he's going to make Pelosi testify. Yeah good luck with that. Maybe, MAYBE he might get Hunter Biden and Schiff.

And every witness he calls will be cross-examined by the House lawyers. So even if he's allowed to drag in an array of conspiracy spouters to rant about Seth Rich, the DNC server, Ukraine framing Russia, etc. those people will get destroyed in cross-examination. And the House will be allowed to call in actual Intelligence agency folks to contradict their stupidity.

[froot loops]

I mean if they censured him, that surely would stop him from asking for foreign help in the future. Trump will truly have learned his lesson from a censure.

[iam416]

Trump said today he's going to make Pelosi testify. Yeah good luck with that. Maybe, MAYBE he might get Hunter Biden and Schiff.

There's no way Pelosi testifies and very unlikely re Schiff. I don't know about Biden, but if they fight that tooth and nail then the optics look like shit.

I mean if they censured him, that surely would stop him from asking for foreign help in the future. Trump will truly have learned his lesson from a censure.

That's a great, great point. Great point. I'm sure being acquitted in the Senate will teach him a lesson he won't soon forget.

[froot loops]

You're right, let Trump be as corrupt as possible.

[iam416]

Well, if your point is that you want to teach him a lesson then it's a fucking stupid point. If you're point is that you want to take a moral stand, then fine. Your response to Liney was the former. And it's stupid as fuck. As evidenced by your immediate shift to the latter when called on it.

[froot loops]

Yeah I guess, I think a censure is truly meaningless. He did impeachable offenses. I'm not sure he'll learn any lesson, but at least he has to defend himself in a Senate trial.

[iam416]

Censure, as a principled stand, is meaningless. I don't think there's anything you can do to curtail his behavior short of actually removing him from office. I think winning in the Senate -- even at 66-34 -- will, if anything, embolden is amoral ass. If he manages to also get re-elected, then fuck it all -- he's full on gangster. That's been my opinion for awhile.

[lineygoblue]

That's a great, great point. Great point. I'm sure being acquitted in the Senate will teach him a lesson he won't soon forget.

Good observation. I mean, after Clinton's acquittal, he had a pep rally and has been so humble and contrite ever since, he's rarely dared to show his face in public. I'm sure he was horrified when Hillary ran for President.

[lineygoblue]

Yeah I guess, I think a censure is truly meaningless. He did impeachable offenses. I'm not sure he'll learn any lesson, but at least he has to defend himself in a Senate trial.

And I actually agree with all of this. Censure gets the Congress on record as to their opinion of what he did, and he can pretty much do nothing about it. Impeachment grants him the opportunity to defend himself and do so vigorously.

I thought it was a total abortion of justice when OJ was set free after killing two people. At one time before the trial, OJ was considered to be toast, and on his way to a date with the needle. Johnny Cochran got involved, and the rest is history. OJ was allowed to defend himself however he chose to. He changed the narrative of the trial to racism, and got a walk.

[froot loops]

If that whistleblower doesn't come forward, they probably get Zelensky to announce on Fareed Zakaria's show they are investigating Biden. That helps Trump win without a doubt. But because the whistleblower came forward, at least an impeachment inquiry was going to be in motion. There is no good option.