Miscellaneous And Off Topic Subjects

[Dr. Strangelove]

The best public service the report does is it lifts a veil on how life operates in the West Wing. It's not people gossiping and backstabbing each other anonymously in the NY Times, it's people attesting to events under oath.

And the ultimate benefit of the Mueller Report is a political one. Do you like what you read in Part II of the Report? Do you like how Trump's advisors ignore, even contemptuously ignore, his direct orders? Do you like how Trump's best defense against obstruction is that his insubordinate staff won't carry out his orders?

[Dr. Strangelove]

Talent- Do you take notes? Good lawyers don't take notes. Roy Cohn never took notes.

[Kapture1]

they will give a shit when they find crimes. Just like this would have been a shitshow today if Mueller's report listed illegal stuff Trump did.

[Kapture1]

The best public service the report does is it lifts a veil on how life operates in the West Wing. It's not people gossiping and backstabbing each other anonymously in the NY Times, it's people attesting to events under oath.

And the ultimate benefit of the Mueller Report is a political one. Do you like what you read in Part II of the Report? Do you like how Trump's advisors ignore, even contemptuously ignore, his direct orders? Do you like how Trump's best defense against obstruction is that his insubordinate staff won't carry out his orders?

Trump firing Mueller wouldn't have been obstruction lol

nice talking point tho.


thing is, to climb inside the mind of Trump, he is the only one in the world that knew without any doubt there was no collusion and the investigation was total horseshit meant to derail his presidency. Look at it from that lens and his frustration makes since.

[Kapture1]

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[Dr. Strangelove]

Trump firing Mueller wouldn't have been obstruction lol

nice talking point tho.


thing is, to climb inside the mind of Trump, he is the only one in the world that knew without any doubt there was no collusion and the investigation was total horseshit meant to derail his presidency. Look at it from that lens and his frustration makes since.

Do you believe the President (no matter who it is) has the absolute right to end ANY investigation and also start any investigation into anyone he chooses? No reasons needed for either?

Simple yes or no will do

[Kapture1]

Do you believe the President (no matter who it is) has the absolute right to end ANY investigation and also start any investigation into anyone he chooses? No reasons needed for either?

Simple yes or no will do

The executive is the head of the DOJ. The Executive has the absolute right to fire anyone from the DOJ that he wants.



well, ordering the firing of anyways.





there are three US statues that pertain to obstruction of Justice. As long as the investigation continued, he could have fired Mueller and there be no legal obstruction, so yeah, nice talking point. we are not talking about ending investigation, I said firing Mueller. You said firing Mueller. don't shift the goalposts.

[Dr. Strangelove]

I'm sure that when Nixon fired the Special Prosecutor, the Attorney General, and the Deputy Attorney General all on the same night, he made that same pitch to Republican Congressmen.

"I'm just firing people! I'm not impeding the investigation!"

Didn't work.

[Kapture1]

again, three US statues pertain to obstruction, and it would not be obstruction to fire Mueller if it didn't impede the investigation. you can chortle about the Saturday night massacre all you want.

Mueller wasn't a 4th branch of government lol

[Jeff Buchanan]

Look, I get that Trump was pissed about an investigation of crime that was, according to talent, "a fairly tale."

So, I'm willing to look at the investigation, as Barr suggests, through that lens. But Trump needed to keep his mouth shut and let the investigation prove it was a fairy tale instead of trying to stop it, i.e., obstruct the administration of justice.

This piece from a BBC report outlining one of eight things we've learned from reading the Mueller Report pretty much sums up my position (credit to Jon up thread who already stated this):
No vindication on obstruction

On potential obstruction of justice, the Mueller report makes clear the inquiry is far from the "total exoneration" claimed by Mr Trump during a victory lap last month.

The report ultimately concludes: "Unlike cases in which a subject engages in obstruction of justice to cover up a crime, the evidence we obtained did not establish that the President was involved in an underlying crime related to Russian election interference."

It adds: "Obstruction of a criminal investigation is punishable even if the prosecution is ultimately unsuccessful or even if the investigation ultimately reveals no underlying crime."

But the report also pointedly notes:

"If we had confidence after a thorough investigation of the facts that the President clearly did not commit obstruction of justice, we would so state. Based on the facts and the applicable legal standards, however, we are unable to reach that judgment. The evidence we obtained about the President's actions and intent presents difficult issues that prevent us from conclusively determining that no criminal conduct occurred."

While the report acknowledges a sitting president cannot be indicted, it also hints at Congress' ability to investigate and potentially impeach Mr Trump over obstruction of justice.

It says: "Congress may apply the obstruction laws to the President's corrupt exercise of the powers of office accords with our constitutional system of checks and balances and the principle that no person is above the law."

(1) I think it is pretty clear that the president tried to hinder and or stop the Special Counsel's investigation. There were other minds around him, way smarter than he is, that understood the law in these matters and refused to carry out directives from Trump that were likely to be subsequently judged illegal obstruction. They weren't going to go to jail on account of his wrong doing.

(2) I think it wrong for Barr to conclude that Mueller did not intend to suggest Congress may apply obstruction laws as a basis for impeachment in re the President's corrupt exercise of the powers of office. Mueller absolutely concludes this.

Do I think Congress will?

Nope.

Do I think Trump obstructed justice? I think he tried to and was thwarted. I suppose you could make a case that attempting to commit a crime such as obstruction warrants accountability for such acts. Congress is likely to, and right in so doing, let the voters decide in 2020. That's not going to be lost on me when I cast my vote. Others? I don't think it will matter and you can call that what you will.

[Panoptes]

JFC some of you are just cretins. I'm ashamed that we share the same right to vote.

Congress cannot do anything about the POTUS other than attempt to impeach him. That gate was slammed shut and now a giant heavy duty lock will keep it closed.

RINO Mueller, Libocrat Rosenstein, and AG Barr redacted the report together. Mueller will willingly sit before Congress, with no objection from the POTUS, to answer all the stupid questions that have already been answered in writing.

GD the left is dense. And when all is said and done, WE THE PEOPLE will put Republicans in as a full majority come 2020.

This nonsense will come back to be a giant self knockout punch to the left. Deservedly so.

#SaveTheChildrenFromTheLeftists

#TRUMP2020

#Hispanics4Trump

[Dr. Strangelove]

LOL

Kapture I think we may have found someone even worse at predicting elections than you

[AlabamAlum]

You are all gaseous douchebags.

[Dr. Strangelove]

You are all gaseous douchebags.

You are a vulgar rapscallion, a bounder, and a cheat at the ancient game of euchre.

[iam416]

Both correct