Miscellaneous And Off Topic Subjects

[AlabamAlum]

Right. At least not in America. I think it's harder to draw a distinction in a lot of European countries because so many of them in the aftermath of WWI and WWII were expressly crafted as ethno-states. "Hungary belongs to the Hungarians. The Czechs need a home state of their own". That sort of thing. In the aftermath of WWII a lot of countries expelled ethnic minority populations, especially Germans. That was because a lot of the countries in eastern Europe viewed these ethnic minorities as collaborators who had colluded with the Nazis in exchange for power. As one example, then-Czechoslovakia didn't want another future Hitler claiming that Sudetenland Germans needed protection, so they deported nearly all of them to East Germany. There were literally millions of them. Population transfers like that took place in the wake of WWII all over central and eastern Europe.

I guess my point with all that rambling is just to say while I wouldn't expressly call nationalism 'white nationalism' in Europe, but it's a fuzzier line than in the USA. Because the post-WWII nation-states were expressly designed for ethnic homogeneity.

I share at least a common basic belief with many of the nationalists in that in a choice netween two things, we need to consider what benefits the US first. Where I separate from some in that group is that I believe that sometimes what benefits the US most is a globalist policy. Sometimes the nationalists do not consider the positive butterfly effect that some international policies have.

I also think nationalists often get the designation as 'white nationalist' because they are concerned about the brown people crossing the Rio Grande to live in the US. From that perspective, the Right is correct in wanting to get control of the border. That benefits the US. Yes, we need migrant labor, but I think we also need to consider that we have ten million (or more) illegals in the US now and the numbers, while the rate of entry is possibly slowing, the overall population is still increasing, and we have finite social program resources to care for our underprivileged as it is. I know life in Honduras (or wherever) is shitty and if I were them I would be trying to get my kids to the US, too. But you can only put so many in a lifeboat before it sinks.

[Kapture1]

we helped out Europe and allowed them to tariff the shit out of US goods because they were rebuilding the continent after WWII. it is time for equal trade.

in terms of Iran, doing the exact opposite of the 0bama administration is a win.

[Jeff Buchanan]

I share at least a common basic belief with many of the nationalists in that in a choice netween two things, we need to consider what benefits the US first. Where I separate from some in that group is that I believe that sometimes what benefits the US most is a globalist policy. Sometimes the nationalists do not consider the positive butterfly effect that some international policies have.

I also think nationalists often get the designation as 'white nationalist' because they are concerned about the brown people crossing the Rio Grande to live in the US. From that perspective, the Right is correct in wanting to get control of the border. That benefits the US. Yes, we need migrant labor, but I think we also need to consider that we have ten million (or more) illegals in the US now and the numbers, while the rate of entry is possibly slowing, the overall population is still increasing, and we have finite social program resources to care for our underprivileged as it is. I know life in Honduras (or wherever) is shitty and if I were them I would be trying to get my kids to the US, too. But you can only put so many in a lifeboat before it sinks.

Pretty much what PDJT has said publically and in this specific and narrowly defined case I agree with him and AA. Methods? He could do better but i think he merges his campaigning (mobilizing his base) with policy undertakings inappropriately.

[Dr. Strangelove]

Random and very off topic but the Census releases its latest estimates for counties and metro areas next week. Fun times for population geeks like me.

https://www.census.gov/newsroom/press-releases/2019/population-metro-micro.html

[Jeff Buchanan]

we helped out Europe and allowed them to tariff the shit out of US goods because they were rebuild8ng the continate after WWII. it is time for equal trade.

in terms of Iran, doing the exact opposite of the 0bama administration is a win.

Ok ..... there's an established process to deal with perceived trade inequities. It's been functional. Maybe Trump is simply applying public pressure to the process. This is good for his perception among his US base. I think its counterproductive to the established process within which the US is only one of many participants. I think he shows he doesn't give a shit about that (MAGA!). I also think, long term, that is to the US's disadvantage.

On Iran ..... is the US sufficiently deployed and prepared to combat an asymmetrical armed threat carried out by Iranian proxies in the ME and/or on US soil? Elsewhere - like Turkey. I'm not sure. Trump may be but my sense is that he's not consulted appropriate agencies about this move. It's the kind of I'll considered loose cannon shit I've brought up before. How about an armed conflict between Israel and Iran being ignited by this move? Desirable outcome? I dont know how you prevent such a conflict from spreading out of control world wide. Talk about a black swan event. I'm not convinced Trump cares about such things. Do you?

[Kapture1]

truth is you don't know what is discussed behind the scenes and what advisors are giving what advice. what generals have what perspective. yet we somehow feel uneasy because Trump isn't what? a lawyer? a career politician?

[iam416]

I also think nationalists often get the designation as 'white nationalist' because they are concerned about the brown people crossing the Rio Grande to live in the US. From that perspective, the Right is correct in wanting to get control of the border.

Correct. So, when I hear that I should take a committee on the "threat of white nationalism" seriously, I wonder what the threat is. Then I hear the "threat" is a policy position shared by a huge number of right-minded individuals and you. So then I think this particular committee is sheer and shameful grandstanding and, possibly, part of the continued effort to tar anyone in favor of sensible immigration policies as a racist white nationalist.

[Kapture1]

Barr: "I think spying (unauthorized surveillance) did occur" on the Trump campaign

[iam416]

Strangelove has apparently dropped the ball on this, but Netanyahu is going to get a fifth term. I'm absolutely stunned as earlier this week Robert Francis declared that he doesn't "think that Benjamin Netanyahu represents the true will of the Israeli people."

[Kapture1]

well, the dems don't really have their finger on the pulse of the people of the world's only Jewish state.

[Jeff Buchanan]

Correct. So, when I hear that I should take a committee on the "threat of white nationalism" seriously, I wonder what the threat is. Then I hear the "threat" is a policy position shared by a huge number of right-minded individuals and you. So then I think this particular committee is sheer and shameful grandstanding and, possibly, part of the continued effort to tar anyone in favor of sensible immigration policies as a racist white nationalist.

Yep, and a reflection of the sad state of useful discourse between the two sides of the current immigration debate....... or debate on most things for that matter.

[Kapture1]

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[Kapture1]

wearing a wire and 25th amendment were one or two of a list of things they were going to do... what else was on that list?

[Dr. Strangelove]

Correct. So, when I hear that I should take a committee on the "threat of white nationalism" seriously, I wonder what the threat is. Then I hear the "threat" is a policy position shared by a huge number of right-minded individuals and you. So then I think this particular committee is sheer and shameful grandstanding and, possibly, part of the continued effort to tar anyone in favor of sensible immigration policies as a racist white nationalist.

Well, I hope you're not talking about me here because I thought I was pretty clear that i do NOT associate your views on immigration control with 'white nationalism'. Maybe you missed a post of mine. I associate racial and religious tests, the kind hanni wants, with white nationalism. Not controlling the border in general.

I have no idea if the purpose of this Committee hearing was to bash all immigration controls. I kinda doubt it. I would hope the Tree of Life massacre was discussed.

[Dr. Strangelove]

Strangelove has apparently dropped the ball on this, but Netanyahu is going to get a fifth term. I'm absolutely stunned as earlier this week Robert Francis declared that he doesn't "think that Benjamin Netanyahu represents the true will of the Israeli people."

Netanyahu represents the will of the Israeli people in the same way Trump represents the will of the Electoral Col-I mean- American people. His party got the same number of seats as his main rival, but because the rightwing lunatic parties in Israel are bigger than the leftwing lunatic parties, his coalition will retain control.

BTW, Netanyahu is still under indictment on bribery/corruption charges.

And also worth recalling that as part of his effort to cling to power, Netanyahu accepted into his Coalition followers of the Kahanist movement, who believe, among other things:

* citizenship should be stripped from all non-Jews
* anyone of Arab heritage must be deported
* sex between Jews and non-Jews be outlawed

Swell people. They're so vile and extreme that AIPAC and the ADL denounced Netanyahu for giving them a voice in his government. It's part of the suspected reason that Netanyahu did not show up in person to AIPAC's convention this year, even though he was in DC the very day it was happening.