Miscellaneous And Off Topic Subjects

[froot loops]

And it isn't true that the EU negotiating stance is Hard Exit or Stay. May's deal did get some concessions, namely the Irish backstop. But that just pissed everyone off. The EU would possibly commit to a Customs union between the two but the rules agreed upon would not be able to pass. The ones who want a no deal exit are the hard-line MPs in the conservative party, that's why DSL has likened them to the HFC.

[CGVT]

Universal health care.

It is beyond time.

[froot loops]

Here's another interesting thing going on. States are implementing plans to pay hospitals for care rendered to state employees according to reimbursement rates set by Medicare. The purpose is to control rising costs.

What is still hard for me to understand is how hospitals get away with the ridiculous charges they come up with. Sure, I get how this stuff is negotiated between hospital groups and insurers and market forces are essentially eliminated except those involving competing hospital groups that, between all of them, are already skimming the premium pot before any reimbursements are made to hospitals. But, save for powerful hospital industry lobbying, this sort of thing could be easily regulated. I am aware of some spotty efforts on the part of Congress to do this but, IMO it is way too little.

The net effect of state's efforts to pay according to Medicare reimbursement rates could catch on both with other state governments as well as the commercial insurance industry. I found the hospital industry's well organized resistance to this revealing. Robotic surgery units are f'ing expensive. Do they improve outcomes? Nope, not generally.

https://www.npr.org/sections/health-..._campaign=news

Have you been reading Sarah Kliff's stuff on Zuckerberg Hospital in San Francisco? I think the answer why and how the hospitals have been getting away with it is nobody does the legwork and exposes the grift. When some of these practices get shown the light of day, all of a sudden they find a correction in the billing.

[THE_WIZARD_]

Universal health care.

It is beyond time.

fuckin' socialist

[Dr. Strangelove]

Just to go back to the Electoral College debate for a sec, I did see this CBS poll earlier. It's not a fringe concept at all and at least until Trump's election it was fairly stable at around 60% being in favor of eliminating it. I'm sure it significantly changes state-to-state

[Dr. Strangelove]

"I had one of the greatest elections in the history of great elections of all time and here comes someone who didn't get a single vote, out of the blue, and gets to write a report about me. What a disgrace! SAD!!"

[Jeff Buchanan]

Have you been reading Sarah Kliff's stuff on Zuckerberg Hospital in San Francisco? I think the answer why and how the hospitals have been getting away with it is nobody does the legwork and exposes the grift. When some of these practices get shown the light of day, all of a sudden they find a correction in the billing.

No, thanks for the link ....... this is sort-of a separate health care problem involving out-of-network situations in ERs but pertains in the end-game ..... the huge hospital bill you can get if your receive care from an ER that is not in your insurance plans network. The article reveals this doesn't happen much and should absolutely not happen in hospitals that market themselves as providing coverage to under-served populations. Unfortunately it does and I think a lot more than we think it does.

You are right. When it comes to shining the light of day on to the crazy hospital charges we are subjected to when we seek care in one, the offending hospital starts squirming. But getting that information into the public eye where it can be scrutinized can be time consuming and costly. Shameful ....... I think healthcare costs and the grift involved - grift may not be the correct word because the scale of the obscene profit taking by hospitals and insurers at the expense of the health care consumer is astounding - should be a major issue for voters.

One doesn't need to tear down the existing system of delivery; we also don't need or want universal HC. Getting full disclosure of HC delivery product pricing and by removing insurers as first payers from the negotiations with providers then replacing them with HC consumers as the first payer is one solution to cost control. By restoring some form of a capital market, HC consumers can shop the best deal, then either pay cash for services provided or buy an insurance policy to cover those costs if they occur. It's not hard. Providers, esp. in the pharmaceutical industry, that pocket discounts negotiated for getting their drugs on formulary (and there are plenty of other HC industry examples that get some type of discount) should also be made illegal.

No where in the world does pricing for HC services work like it does here in the US. Would you seek the services of any entity in the service industry without getting estimates for the service they are going to provide? Can you imagine calling a plumber to fix a leak in your toilet and being told we can't tell you what it costs right now, we'll send you a bill when it's done? Or even better, you have damage to your home that you also have a State Farm homeowners insurance policy for. You call a service provider to fix it that is "in network" for State Farm. State Farm and the service provider have agreed in advance, through negotiations, that the service provider will get $10k for fixing the problem that might cost just $500 to actually repair. The service provider asks for a volume discount of $3K from State Farm and gets it. Does the consumer benefit from the discount? Nope. The service provider pockets it. But you only pay your deductible so, what do you care. State Farm is happy becasue they will recoup $8K for a job that should cost $500 and guess who pays for that? You do when you receive your next semi-annual premium bill from State Farm and find it has doubled. This never really happens. Why? Because State Farm is in a segment of the insurance industry that is highly regulated to protect consumers from the kind of shit that HC service providers are getting away with.

It's one of the greatest rip-off schemes of consumers ever.

[froot loops]

Jeff - what you think shouldn't be hard to fix seems like its incredibly hard to fix. In twenty years, none of this will be fixed, too many people profit from it.

Personally I don't think the plumber analogy works. If I'm sick right now, sometimes it takes me 1 to 2 weeks to get an appointment with my doctor. If I need to get an appointment for my daughter, sometimes its three months out, so she cannot miss it. If I have a leak in my house or a big project I want done I can call a bunch of plumbers and they can visit my house and all give me quotes. I understand the theory your pushing, I don't see it working in practice in the medical field. I could be wrong but I just see too many obstacles.

[Dr. Strangelove]

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[AlabamAlum]

[Hannibal]

I have said this before, but any discussion of Socialized medicine needs to acknowledge that we pretty much already have it.

I look forward to the days when government is in control of it, because if there is anything that our government is known for, it's an ability to streamline processes, cut costs, and eliminate graft.

[crashcourse]

We didn't get social security right

we didn't get defense spending right

we didn't get medicare right

we don't get infrastructure right

why would the governemnt get this right

especially being 22 million dol;lars in debt

AA hit it we over test over complicate what should be cut and dry standards--but hospitals especially the big one and the research one are big business--closing in on 15% of the GDP I believe.

and its all big city--the smaller joints more rural are closing throughout the country

the reality is we probably spend way too much trying for hailt hail mary cure for our loved ones with heart failure, lung cancer, kidney failure, severe lung disease etc

for every home run hit we have 9 strikeouts and a busted budget in some areas

I don't know where morality meets economics meets greed but entering government management into the medical field would be a disaster. VA care is generally a prime example of lots of bucks for limited patient benefit

[hack]

Pretty simple, here, crash -- in America people pay private companies more money for worse outcomes; in most other peer countries people pay the government less and get better outcomes.

Any failure to recognize the better option here calls into question the basic assumption underlying market economics that people can spot which option is best and tend to pick that one over worse ones.

[Dr. Strangelove]

Trump can't help himself. He's visiting a tank factory in Lima, OH and decides that's the perfect time & place to attack John McCain some more. Launched into a 5 minute rant about him. This time he complains that he gave McCain "the kind of funeral he wanted" and yet he got no thank yous." Columbus Dispatch reporter says his putdowns of McCain were met with stony silence (most of the audience was either military or defense contractors).

[crashcourse]

nah its like anything else

the more money you have the better your care

just aquestion whether those paying for medical care for all decide having their business in this county is worth it

hers a pretty good stat though

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/the-u-s-has-1-million-more-job-openings-than-unemployed-workers/

you would think that would drive wages up

you would think people would offer better benefits to get their jobs filled

translating better medical benefits

sure like to give the present economic boom a chance and see if we can cut this deficit

why rock the boat by introducing multi trillion dollar government programs

ultmimnately if we can create more winners then ;losers we are doing well. 7/10 americans think we are

keep the present economics as they are