Miscellaneous And Off Topic Subjects

[Ghengis Jon]

For years, the mayoral candidates and city council have run on platforms of what they can 'give' to the citizens. But that, of course, is based on what you can provide the candidates (donations, endorsements, the usual stuff). Tammany Hall is a pretty close analogy to use. Its been very very ugly for many many years. One of the highlights of Flint's governing class was when Stanley was recalled in 2002 for financial incompetence and responded that "f**king whitey" was behind it all. That was simply an encore for his even worse predicessor Don Williamson.

The gov't of Flint is what gives lynch mobs legitimacy.

[UMStan White]

yeah but this crisis is directly linked to the Gov's exercise of absolute power that negates any democratic form of government. The irony of all this is now Snyder supports returning the exercise of some democratic powers back to the duly elected mayor.

[hack]

Running against a perceived oppressor works very well, and that subset of politicians who are corrupt already before they even get elected know this very well. Sure. It's a shame. But look -- the country doubled up on the Bush/Cheney approach to redirecting wealth to themselves via DOD contracting, rather than tossing those bastards out. That doesn't mean that Americans as a whole understood and approved of that. Trump's ahead in the polls today. I don't see the logic in pointing to the voters of Flint, Detroit, DC, Chicago, Louisiana, Texas -- or the country as a whole, even -- and singling out constituents there as lacking the desire to have proper leadership. Might as well go to the chicken coop call them all idiots for not flying away when they had a chance.

[WingsFan]

Bernie Sanders on Saturday called on Michigan Gov. Rick Snyder to resign for his administration’s failure to deal with a lead-poisoning crisis that has sickened thousands of children in Flint, Michigan.

“There are no excuses. The governor long ago knew about the lead in Flint’s water. He did nothing. As a result, hundreds of children were poisoned. Thousands may have been exposed to potential brain damage from lead. Gov. Snyder should resign,” Sanders said.

As note, I havent seen one story on this on Fox News (what a shocker). They still like the breaking news - another Hillary email bombshell, night after night. Wishful thinking...

[entropy]

Running against a perceived oppressor works very well, and that subset of politicians who are corrupt already before they even get elected know this very well. Sure. It's a shame. But look -- the country doubled up on the Bush/Cheney approach to redirecting wealth to themselves via DOD contracting, rather than tossing those bastards out. That doesn't mean that Americans as a whole understood and approved of that. Trump's ahead in the polls today. I don't see the logic in pointing to the voters of Flint, Detroit, DC, Chicago, Louisiana, Texas -- or the country as a whole, even -- and singling out constituents there as lacking the desire to have proper leadership. Might as well go to the chicken coop call them all idiots for not flying away when they had a chance.

and the dem's are the same.. whenever someone posts about the evils of a political party, it quickly becomes clear they want a debate about which party is better rather than about the issues at hand. Sadly, both morality and positioning in America have become more about political affiliation than doing the right thing. It is also the point where threads go down hill..

[WingsFan]

But look -- the country doubled up on the Bush/Cheney approach to redirecting wealth to themselves via DOD contracting, rather than tossing those bastards out. That doesn't mean that Americans as a whole understood and approved of that. Trump's ahead in the polls today.

The American voters only cared about what they feared, terrorism - 911 - terror terror... Gerorge W. had the country fearing for their life. Hence, Trump basically playing the same card with outlandish (and entertaining ) rapist, murders, build a wall against the illegal immigrants running balls out on are friendliness American people.

[The Oracle]

and the dem's are the same.. whenever someone posts about the evils of a political party, it quickly becomes clear they want a debate about which party is better rather than about the issues at hand. Sadly, both morality and positioning in America have become more about political affiliation than doing the right thing. It is also the point where threads go down hill..

Reason numero uno why I hate politics.

[Da Geezer]

Jon: $ 100.00 per day for the whole system? Did Snyder, or his appointee, make that decision?

I still feel that if Detroit had not overcharged/refused Flint for its water, we certainly would not be where we are today. Why couldn't Flint hook up to the Detroit system even now and mitigate the damage?

And I guess I would like to know what Snyder had to gain by poisoning the people of Flint.

[entropy]

Reason numero uno why I hate politics.

yep.. and it's tough to even find good dialogue that is not politically biased. I don't think we know how to disagree anymore.. or when to admit one is wrong. Like the 97 NC.. it's clear to everyone but Michigan fans UNL was the better team. =)

[hack]

What a bullshitter you are. Would fit right in in DC!

[UMStan White]

Geezer, As I posted upthread, Snyder's hand-picked emergency manager made the decision after the Flint City Counsel voted to join the new regional system. His decision was based on "cost savings" to the City. The Flint Water treatment department failed to properly treat the water with an ant-corrosive agent, allowing lead to leach into the system. Detroit and the Detroit Waste Water Treatment system had absolutely nothing to so with this fiasco. Detroit didn't "refuse" to allow Flint to hook up to its regional water system. Flint didn't want to pay the price. Detroit had nothing to do with Flint's decision not to properly treat its water.(I'm always amused how out-of county Michigan residents see Detroit as the big bad bogey man that is directly responsible for all the problems faced by the State's citizens). The conservative "fix" is estimated to be 1.5 billion dollars. This cost does not include one dime for the foreseeable costs dealing with approximately 6,000 children with potential developmental disorders caused by exposure to lead. Snyder's role in all this is tied to his administration's refusal and neglect in acknowledging there is a serous problem and relying upon a flawed study to deny a problem existed when other studies indicated a serious health risk existed. Furthermore, Snyder's hand-picked "emergency manager" is the one who made the decision to switch to the Flint River and Flint's own waste water department. (another great amusement--those who preach "personal responsibility" to blame others never want to take responsibility for their own actions) If you want a great example about the State's reaction to this health crisis, look in the Detroit Free Press archives for the poster the State issued (and has since withdrawn)showing cute little babies with words to the effect "Flint's water is safe for bathing".

[Ghengis Jon]

Jon: $ 100.00 per day for the whole system? Did Snyder, or his appointee, make that decision?

I still feel that if Detroit had not overcharged/refused Flint for its water, we certainly would not be where we are today. Why couldn't Flint hook up to the Detroit system even now and mitigate the damage?

Yup, $100/day for the whole system.

I believe it was the financial manager. Detroit, also in a financial hole, decided that since selling water was one of the very few 'opportunities' to generate income, they would try to maximize the amount they would receive. Flint, in their opinion, was over a proverbial barrel and would have to accept the terms no matter how outrageous. Flint, awash in red ink, didn't/couldn't accept the terms. No compromise, no discussion - two bankrupt, obstinate entities willing to cut their own noses off to spite the other.

[hack]

Was Detroit under emerg manager then too?

[Da Geezer]

Ghengis Jon said:

Flint, in their opinion, was over a proverbial barrel and would have to accept the terms no matter how outrageous. Flint, awash in red ink, didn't/couldn't accept the terms. No compromise, no discussion - two bankrupt, obstinate entities willing to cut their own noses off to spite the other.

That seems to be what I find reading the newspapers. Of course, that assumes that city officials from both Flint and Detroit had some serious input into making the problem. It just seems to me that, if the Governor is in charge of both cities, he would have the power to require Detroit to provide water to Flint until the new Flint/Genesee system is finished.

The best article on this that I found is :

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flint_water_crisis

I just find it hard to believe that Snyder would consciously poison children in Flint. Your distinction about fast water from the river versus still water from the lake makes a lot of sense. This sounds to me like a lot of spite between Flint and Detroit. I think it is also relevant that Detroit gave Flint one year's notice in April of 2013 that the water would be shut off, and the river water alternative had been part of planning as an emergency source of water for at least 50 years.

$ 100.00 per day marginal cost for good water. This sounds a lot like government to me.

[Da Geezer]

Was Detroit under emerg manager then too?

I haven't been able to find that out either. It would make it a lot easier to make the cities do what is best for the people of the Flint if the State had authority over both cities.