Miscellaneous And Off Topic Subjects

[UMStan White]

Geezer and others if you think I'm wrong start with this article:

http://www.freep.com/story/opinion/contributors/raw-data/2016/01/16/map-8657-flints-youngest-children-exposed-lead/78818888/

[lineygoblue]

As I understand it, the City of Detroit hit the City of Flint with a rather large rate increase for the water supply.

Flint is mired in a financial apocalypse that has been going on since the 70's. Its been so bad, an so corrupted by local politicians, that the state (i.e. Snyder) had to step in and provide an administrator, to make sure the bills got paid. When Detroit's edict came along, the administrator felt that Detroit was gouging Flint citizens for their water supply. So, the administrator decided to reinstate the old Flint water system, which drew water from the Flint River. This, it was felt, would avoid having to pay Detroit's outrageous demand, and save Flint residents money.

Well, as it turned out, the way Detroit treated its water, and the way the former Flint water system treated its water were different. The re-establishment of the Flint water system caused a chemical reaction in the pipes, which caused lead to be introduced into the system. Thus, here we are today.

Governor Snyder did not murder anyone. He did not sit in his office one day, and decide to have his "henchmen" poison Flint's water. An employee that he appointed made a decision to change the water supply, because of price gouging by the City of Detroit.

The problem now, will not be resolved by Cher calling for Governor Snyder to be assassinated, or former Davison resident Mike Moore showing off his toy handcuffs, and cardboard signs, demanding that Governor Snyder be arrested.

The problem now has to be resolved by people who have Flint's residents best interests at heart, and who will attack the problem and fix it. If that means digging up old pipes and replacing them, then so be it. Get started. Fix it. As I said before, this is akin to the Love Canal situation. Its going to cost a ton of money, and lots of time and work. Playing with toy handcuffs and cute hashtags, or demanding the murder of the Governor gets us nowhere. Fix the problem.

Then, tell the citizens of Flint to start electing leaders that have their best interests at heart, rather than serving their own interests.

[UMStan White]

Snyder knew about the problem and did nothing. He appointed a committee to address the problem. In an unheard of act the committee began to release its findings in a piecemeal effort because it felt the health problem was too serious to await a "final report". Snyder's office was alerted to the problem years ago but denied it was serious. Once the piecemeal report came out, the head of the state water quality department "resigned" and its chief spokesperson "resigned" Blaming Cher or Michael Moore for one of the most severe ecological and health crisis in the state is absolutely ridiculous. Even the Detroit News, the most conservative papers in the state puts the blame squarely on the shoulders of Snyder, the Republican governor whose office has does absolutely nothing to address this major health issue in the nation until now. To suggest that this disaster is the fault of anyone other than the governor is foolish. My advise to you is don't drink the water.

[Dr. Strangelove]

Flint was officially declared a federal emergency today

http://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/2016/01/16/president-obama-declares-emergency-flint/78898604/

[lineygoblue]

I moved out of Flint long ago, Stan.

My job there was eliminated, so I had to move with it to stay employed.

[hack]

Stan, please. This is the kind of comment that make political discussions go bad. Keep it civil please. The second sentence was totally unnecessary.

So Stan's free to shit on anyone save for you, linesman? That's what it looks like here. I don't know you personally so I won't say, but your posts suggest you are a dyed-in-the-wool hypocrite. If that's really who you are you should be ashamed of yourself.

[lineygoblue]

Hack, you need to go back and read the sequence of posts. My comment was directed toward Stan for this comment to WM:

Compared to you who's only claim to fame is that you can prostitute your daughter's asses on the internet.

Stan has since apologized and we've moved on.

FWIW, I don't care what Stan says to/about me. He and I are friends, and if I ever have a problem with it, I'll talk to him personally.

[Prime2]

Liney, Hack's a little bit on edge, he's been waterskiing in Flint for years.

Relax Hack, I read somewhere that gay people are immune to lead poisoning.

[Mike]

10 deaths from Legionnaires Disease now connected to Flint River water.

Snyder won't serve out his term.

[hodgkal]

"So Stan's free to shit on anyone save for you, linesman? That's what it looks like here. I don't know you personally so I won't say, but your posts suggest you are a dyed-in-the-wool hypocrite. If that's really who you are you should be ashamed of yourself.?
Hack, if it weren't for Liney we wouldn't have this forum. He has helped calm many personal attack episodes over the years among various posters. He took a chance this time in allowing an off-topic political discussion thread. If we can't keep it civil it will close.

As a result this forum hosts some really outstanding and thoughtful personalities and has enabled some genuine friendships as well as really enlightening football discussion. You should try to make it to a UM tailgate and find out for yourself how nice these guys are.

[Ghengis Jon]

10 deaths from Legionnaires Disease now connected to Flint River water.

Snyder won't serve out his term.

Afraid he will. Any state that (re) elects scum like John Engler as guv will give a pass to any basically decent fellow who happens to F up in a royal way. I haven't read the details, but federal aid is on the way.

To give you an idea of how bad the situation is, Flint water got a full page article in The Week.

[lineygoblue]

I don't know if the information is out there or not, and I'm too lazy to look for it, but it might be interesting to see some sort of map that shows the layout of Flint's water system, so that we could see just how much of an area is affected. Are there other local communities that receive water from Flint's system?

I don't know how the problem can be fixed without total replacement of Flint's water system. The money, time and effort to replace an entire city's water system? Flint has been putting water pipes in the ground since the 1800's. Does all of that have to be replaced?

Yikes.

[UMStan White]

There was a link in either the Free Press or Detroit News last week that showed the areas affected and how many children under the age of 6 were in each area.

[hack]

I don't think it's the words, Doc, but the timing. Stan's been chasing WM around several threads, attacking in precisely the sort of way that turns people off -- nobody wants to have to scroll past an extended run of nastiness that spills over in to multiple threads. And in the midst of that, which linesman as moderator should have stopped, linesman complained about Stan's treatment of linesman specifically. That's ridiculous.

Doc I know that linesman draws a lot of respect around here, and in the past it has come from me too, but that's in the past. I think it's telling that one of the few spats that have come in this thread since we've opened it up was triggered by linesman.

[Ghengis Jon]

There are two major issues with the water in Flint.

First there is a difference between lake water and river water. Lake water is slow moving. Agitation has a significant effect on the water and the impurities that it contains. Collateral debris and toxins get put into fast moving water as banks get washed. Huron is affected significantly less by run off than the Flint River. Water treatment plants treat lake water differently than river water.

Second, is the transport system. The water from Detroit was running through much newer (less older) piping. Switching to the Flint River forced the city to use an ancient system that had pipes soldered and joined with lead.

Due to the now departed manufacturing base, there is a lot of toxins that leach into the water from the earth. That is one issue. There is a lot of chemical run off from the sewer systems of both city and suburbia plus farms along the Flint River watershed. Also we have enormous run off from our roads. Thats thousands of tons of both magnesium chloride and sodium choride that washes directly into the water system.

So now you have toxic water that only meets bare minimum federal safety standards. Recent testing of the water showed extremely high chloride levels as well, which is critical in this matter. These chlorides are reacting to the older lead fused pipes and leaching the lead and other contaminents into the water. The motion and pressure of the water traveling through the pipes (pressurized agitation) maximizes the reaction. So as long as Flint uses the only supply route available from the River to the water system, this health castastrophe will continue.

On a side note, and I can't find the source, it was reported that the difference between treating the water as river water (fast) versus lake water (slow) was $100 a day. The city of Flint, so desperate for cash, decided that was an extravagant expense.