Miscellaneous And Off Topic Subjects

[froot loops]

You know, Froot, it's certainly within the Ven diagram of arguments to say that PDJT's rhetoric ain't good AND the Florida Injun is responsible for his actions. However, if the new game is that whatever motivates the criminal or bad actor is ALL to blame, then so be it. That was certainly the case when the press went after Palin for the Giffords shooting -- shamefully -- and certainly wasnt the case when Scalise was shot. But, I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you're principled. So, I'm going to assume these are the new rules.

Going forward, then, I'm happy to play by your principle that whatever motivates the criminal/bad actor is ALL to blame and hold those folks accountable. In this case, PDJT should be tried for attempted murder, I guess. I'll do one retroactively -- Islam is to blame for the Orlando nightclub shooting as the shooter was motivated by Islam's strong anti-buggery position. Cool.

Beat that strawman into the ground, I never argued that Trump should be arrested

[iam416]

So, if we've completely backed off of ALL then it's a far more interesting discussion. Because it's not really tenable to say PDJT has NO responsibility. T Absolutes are simplistic and, as I said, stupendously stupid. The question, then, is how much "partial" responsibility he bears and, then, generally, how much responsibility do we assign to various motivating causes.

I'm very much of the opinion that the individual is accountable. I don't, e.g., condemn Islam for Islamic Terrorist activities. It's clear, though, one could easily do so if they were so inclined. And, of course, Rs (and PDJT) certainly do. I find it remarkably dangerous, however, to assign significant culpability to words. That is the prerequisite to censorship. That is the first significant step to encroaching freedom of speech or religion or otherwise. Blame words or religion for horrific actions of an individual -- then you have a harm that needs redressing -- and how do you that? Welp.

So, I very much push back againt the notion that political speech or religion is culpable to any significant extent. ****EDIT****** For me, the words have to be extremely close in time to the acts and direct. Stump speeches or other political rhetoric just don't qualify in my book ****EDIT****

[iam416]

Beat that strawman into the ground

Strawman arguments are, as I understand, refuting that which was never presented. So, no. Maybe I misread your post as a defense of CGVT's statement. But the argument was presented. And lambasted.

But, I'm glad to see you side with me on that point. Thanks.

[Dr. Strangelove]

I'm gonna need more. If your point is that Benghazi was a total horseshit politically manufactured scandal, then I'm completely on board. Personally, I couldn't believe you spent as much time arguing that point with some folks here as you did. The Rs went after Oprama with everything and then HRC. Conceded. I find that bit of history not the least bit unique, though.

If your point is otherwise, then...I'll reserve comment.

Yes, my point was that Bengahzi was a totally political scandal that was tossed aside the moment R's took power because they no longer had any use for it. An example closely related to 'but her emails'.

I'm all for going with "individual wackos are individual wackos", but it was only last week that the #JobsNotMobs hashtag was born and Mitch McConnell getting yelled at in a restaurant was considered proof positive that all Dems stood for anarchy, violence, Ludditism, peasant revolts, and MTV not showing music videos anymore. So the timing on this is naturally going to make progs eager to pounce.

[iam416]

but it was only last week that the #JobsNotMobs hashtag was born and Mitch McConnell getting yelled at in a restaurant was considered proof positive that all Dems stood for anarchy, violence, Ludditism, peasant revolts, and MTV not showing music videos anymore. So the timing on this is naturally going to make progs eager to pounce.

Yeah, of course. The Rs made a big deal about a lot of shit. No doubt. I don't think I was here condemning Waters (or others) for Sarah Sanders getting kicked out of a restaurant. I think my take was focused on their specific act -- they can do what they want, but the consequences will come.

So, sure, this is absolutely a politically manufactured story to the extent they're going after PDJT. Especially given how much the press HATES PDJT. So, sure. If someone wants to say this just good politics, well, ok. I may actually agree ***EDIT*** -- I think I do agree ***EDIT***. If someone wants to say it's right, well, then it's a different question.

[iam416]

And, btw, I said it was crazy to think this person was some #GentryProg doing this to make Rs look bad. Just FTR.

[Dr. Strangelove]

Shifting gears here. It's unlikely any one cares but me, but for reporting on Nevada elections, Jon Ralston is a great source. Often times people who focus exclusively on a particular state are the best resources and Jon knows Nevada pretty damn well.

Something he has said this year is that he believes for Democrats to have a chance at beating Heller & winning the governorship, they need at minimum a 30,000 voter advantage in Clark County (Vegas) going into Election Day. Closer to 40,000 if they want to feel good about their chances. They currently have an 18,000 voter edge after a week or so of early voting. (By this is means the total number of registered Dems vs registered R's that have already voted).

Something else he has recently pointed out (and there's no guarantee it continues but...it's a real trend) is that Democrats have consistently outperformed the RealClearPolitics average in statewide races in recent years.

Obama 2008
RCP: Obama +6.4
Actual: Obama +12.5

Senate 2010
RCP: Sharon Angle +2.7
Actual: Harry Reid +5.6

Obama 2012
RCP: Obama +2.8
Actual: Obama +6.7

Senate 2012
RCP: Dean Heller +4
Actual: Dean Heller +1.2

President 2016
RCP: Trump +0.8
Actual: Clinton +2.4

https://thenevadaindependent.com/article/the-early-voting-blog

[*JD*]

Another hate crime/mass shooting in Trump's America this morning.

[iam416]

I think the Ds win Nevada and lose Arizona. If I had to bet on it, I may bet on the Rs in Indiana before Nevada.

[froot loops]

I cannot believe the false flag nonsense is a normal part of this discourse, it is so stupid.

[froot loops]

Another hate crime/mass shooting in Trump's America this morning.

Yeah the guy reportedly yelled "all Jews must die" as he opened fire on a synagogue in Pittsburgh. They have got him in custody, 8 dead and 3 injured. Just effing awful.

[Kapture1]

Another hate crime/mass shooting in Trump's America this morning.

from his social media page the guy thinks Trump is a globalist that is controlled by the Jews

square that one in you head JD


i know this is hard for you to understand but the world didn't start spinning when Trump was elected. there have been hate crimes and mass shootings before Nov. 2016

[iam416]

Yeah, PDJT is pro-Israel and Pro-Hebrew. Unlike the Progs, who love them some Hamas.

[CGVT]

I think maybe Progs love them some peace, not shootings inspired by a "Nationalist" demogogue.

[iam416]