Miscellaneous And Off Topic Subjects

[Ghengis Jon]

The US will do nothing to House of Saud unless Congress forces the issue. Look no farther than Russia to see how will react. In just the last couple years, Putin has had dissidents publicly gunned down in Moscow and others poisoned in Europe. What has Chump's response been? "May I please lick your ass some more? Please comrade?"

It will be no different with Saudi Arabia. Putin's cock holster has already stated that a $110B deal, not yet finalized or implemented, is more important than something as trivial as murdering people who are critical of you. Something Trump wishes he could do. Money is always more important than life, morals and ethics. Particularly if you already have more than what you can spend.

Like the Russia sanctions, it will probably take Congress and a veto proof majority for any action to be taken. After all the bluster and threats, the Orange Menace silently signed the bill and tried to change the subject. We live in sad times when we have to rely on Congress to do something about anything because our morally bankrupt, ethically devoid POSOTUS is too busy wasting taxpayer money flying AF One to his campaign rallies.

[Kapture1]

if only we had a president that tells Putin to cut it out. Literally

and the RNC pays for the president's campaigning, not the US Taxpayers.

[Dr. Strangelove]

I recall reading that the RNC only pays for the venue, food, lodging (if needed). They do NOT pay for the costs of Air Force One, the cost/lodging of the SS agents traveling with Trump, etc.

[AlabamAlum]

The Kashoggi murder was, of course, ordered by the Crown Prince.This act just reeks of the Crown Prince. The recordings and intel to date seem to support that. I think it possible, though, that the King was unaware. He was very content to let his son run things. The aides have just long-fed the King positive news from Saudi TV while the son did what he pleased.

So, if it is the Crown Prince, what will the King do? Has his son already been given and/or wrested enough control to effect a coup if the King tries to slap him down?

The whole thing is fascinating. It would make a good movie. I do like the shock that many have in discovering that the Saudis aren't the thawb-wearing friends and good guys of the region that they thought they were.

[Dr. Strangelove]

MBS has already either murdered his relatives who could possibly challenge him or stripped them of their wealth.

[AlabamAlum]

MBS has already either murdered his relatives who could possibly challenge him or stripped them of their wealth.

So, do you think the King is already powerless to stop his son, MbS?

[Kapture1]

I recall reading that the RNC only pays for the venue, food, lodging (if needed). They do NOT pay for the costs of Air Force One, the cost/lodging of the SS agents traveling with Trump, etc.

The FEC has a set reimbursement rate that does cover some of the costs associated with AF1

[Jeff Buchanan]

..........The whole thing is fascinating. It would make a good movie. I do like the shock that many have in discovering that the Saudis aren't the thawb-wearing friends and good guys of the region that they thought they were.

I've always found it interesting to follow the history and politics of the ME. It has been and is now a sort of side show to the inter-relationships of the great powers of the East and West. OTH, what goes on there is immensely important to the world's economies and political stability.

I was in my late 20s when I first encountered the Arab world live and in person. I was aboard an aircraft carrier making a port call in Oman .... well, if you can call it that. We anchored off shore some where to receive an Omani entourage that included Sultan Qaboos bin Said Al Said. He had recently taken power by overthrowing his father and we were acting as a US envoy signaling US support ..... not to mention that at the time Oman was a key US ally in the region. It still is today. We had the US Pacific Fleet Commander aboard and the Sultan arrived by Helicopter. We were all in formation on the flight deck. Out pops this guy in flowing white robes and traditional head dress. On his side was a huge Saif or Arab sword. He unbuckled it and presented it to the Fleet Admiral. It was like out of a 40s movie scene. Anyway that picture has stuck in my mind and defined Arab rulers for me.

At some point on this long cruise in the Indian Ocean, I learned about the dirty underbelly of Arab culture and it has never left me. Arabs do things very differently than they are done in the West or most other corners of the globe. Rulers are ruthless and wield power through the wealth they've gained from oil revenues - this goes back to the 20s. You want something in a personal, business, political or military relationship with Arabs, there is background payback beyond whatever the deal might have cost up front. It's called Baksheesh. It's oily, underhanded and absolutely expected. If bad things happen to others involved in a deal, you either look the other way or you become a part of those bad things.

Anyway, it's very difficult for Westerners to understand Arabs and the ME in general. We are shocked by how governments govern. There are always signs of democratization but it's a facade that conceals the brutality of the rulers there. The brutality and self-serving interests of the ruling elite is, fundamentally, what has given rise to Islamic governance and the violent groups within the Sunni sect of it such as Al-Qaeda and ISIS.

So, when we in the US demand consequences for MbS's actions in the Kashoggi affair, we fail to realize this is day to day life in the Arab world. We may not like it, we may be disgusted that things like this can happen while at the same time we praise the nice things Arabs do by allowing women the right to drive in SA (what a fucking joke), but it is the way things are done to create security for the ruling elite.

In judging the US reaction to Kashoggi's murder at the hands of the House of Saud, we need to take into account how things are done there and have been done there for centuries. We're not going to change it by crying and wringing our hands over the brutality and we certainly should not jeopardize our strategic interests in the ME that include a relationship with SA by acting on silly outrage. Do we need to send a message that shows we don't take kindly to the brazen murder of MbS's critics? Yes, but it has to be measured and not conditioned on outrage from the left that often fails to see the world in terms of things that don't necessarily conform to there view of how the world should be.

[AlabamAlum]

Jeff, that's all well and good, but while we may have to understand and respect how things are done there, it's a two-way street and they have to understand and respect our ways. MbS brutally murdered a US resident and journalist outside of Saudi Arabia. It's not like they arrested him in his home in Riyadh. It was clumsy and sloppy and has become public. To defer to their ways without them respecting ours is weak and would ensure that these type things would get more brazen.

But I enjoyed the story. I wish I had a sword to give you.

[froot loops]

Its really shows how the randomness of what story captures the fascination of the public. This is the first thing that has captured the attention of the American public about Saudi Arabia. The sad, ridiculous war in Yemen has barely registered. AA has captured the essence of it, the murder and its alleged details are something you would see in movie. That paints a much more vivid picture than a school bus full of children dying.

Here is what I don't get, if you have a 15 person hit team dispatched to Turkey to carry this out, why do it in the Consulate? That makes no sense if you want to keep it quiet. That team could easily abduct him somewhere else under less scrutiny. That indicates to me the order was done for effect, he didn't want it to be quiet. He wanted it to serve as a warning sign to others and apparently didn't realize this would blow up. Or they are just incredibly stupid.

[AlabamAlum]

Froot,

I don't think MbS anticipated that the Turks had the consulate bugged (apparently). I believe he felt that he would have deniability. And without the recording, he would have.

[froot loops]

I find the worries about jeopardizing the relationship because you are afraid to confront someone with a sever case of impulse control to be very unpersuasive. Sure, they do things different over there, but they are a client state, get out of line too far you need more than a hand slap. And you certainly don't need your president equivocating this nonsense. During Jeff's story time he exposed our virgin ears to how they do things over there, that is all well and good but it doesn't sound like Jeff's Indian cruise happened during the reign of MBS. Our ears are virgin because they kept that distasteful crap in house(they didn't really but for the sake of argument), when you step out of line the US should rightly put you back in your place.

[froot loops]

Froot,

I don't think MbS anticipated that the Turks had the consulate bugged (apparently). I believe he felt that he would have deniability. And without the recording, he would have.

Even without the bug, they have him going in and never coming out on surveillance. In this day and age with the camera being so ubiquitous I would automatically think a consulate or embassy would be under surveillance.

These guys showed up at the airport with their own passports and a few of them were know to be part of his security detail. It is all very sloppy. I've seen enough mob, spy and heist movies to believe these guys were not master planners but it still seems like they would be clued in to how obvious they were.

[Whitley]

Trump won't do anything because it might jeopardize his business interests.

[AlabamAlum]

Froot,

People are denying culpability even WITH the recording. Without it, the consulate says, "We issued his papers and he left out the back way in one of our limos (for his safety!) and we dropped him at some address he gave us." MbS shrugs his shoulders and goes, "You have no evidence that I did anything!"