Miscellaneous And Off Topic Subjects

[UMStan White]

No criminal code for collusion? Read the RICO act moron. You don't even know what the term "collusion" means in the criminal law.

[Kapture1]

Hey moron, we don't know

correct cunt, you don't know.

keep grasping at those straws tho

[iam416]

"The Court has repeatedly said that the essence of a conspiracy is 'an agreement to commit an unlawful act.'"(emphasis added)

[THE_WIZARD_]

imbeciles

[UMStan White]

The point you are missing is that the "unlawful act" of the conspiracy may be to an agreement to commit an unlawful act for a legal purpose or it may be acting legally for the purpose of committing an unlawful act. In either case an unlawful act was committed. No doubt that an agreement to commit an unlawful act for an unlawful purpose can be the basis for a finding a criminal conspiracy has been committed, but it need not be.That is the law of conspiracy. There is no crime if you have an agreement to act lawfully for a lawful purpose. Furthermore if you are part of the conspiracy it doe not matter that you personally committed no unlawful act. Any unlawful act by any co-conspirator is imputed to you whether you knew the co-conspirator or not or whether you acted with knowledge that the co-conspirator committed an unlawful act in furtherance of the conspiracy.

[froot loops]

Every once in awhile, Stan unleashes the fastball.

[Kapture1]

what was unlawful about the Trump Tower meeting?
what unlawful act was agreed to?
what legal act was done for the purpose of committing an unlawful act and what was that unlawful act?


use facts.

[UMStan White]

God Kapture can you be so dumb as to not know that that is a big part of Mueller's investigation? Why would you think that you or I have the "facts" that Mueller has. Merely because Trump denies it doesn't make it so. To be convicted of criminal conspiracy, the conspiracy need not be successful.

[iam416]

The point you are missing is that the "unlawful act" of the conspiracy may be to an agreement to commit an unlawful act for a legal purpose or it may be acting legally for the purpose of committing an unlawful act. In either case an unlawful act was committed. No doubt that an agreement to commit an unlawful act for an unlawful purpose can be the basis for a finding a criminal conspiracy has been committed, but it need not be.That is the law of conspiracy. There is no crime if you have an agreement to act lawfully for a lawful purpose. Furthermore if you are part of the conspiracy it doe not matter that you personally committed no unlawful act.

I'm not missing anything. This is what I've been saying.

Any unlawful act by any co-conspirator is imputed to you whether you knew the co-conspirator or not or whether you acted with knowledge that the co-conspirator committed an unlawful act in furtherance of the conspiracy.

Right, provided there's an agreement to commit an unlawful act in the first instance. As I said in my orange example, if we agree to sell oranges and you go out and steal the oranges to sell, you're liable -- I am NOT because we didn't have an agreement illegally. If you tell me you're going to steal oranges, then we're both liable because we agreed to illegal act even though the larger purpose is legal.

The essence of a conspiracy is 'an agreement to commit an unlawful act.Without out it, you have no conspiracy.

[UMStan White]

Go to Findlaw.com and look up the definition of criminal conspiracy:

conspiracy

n. when people work together by agreement to commit an illegal act. A conspiracy may exist when the parties use legal means to accomplish an illegal result, or to use illegal means to achieve something that in itself is lawful.

Oh gee, I was right and Kapture was wrong! Surprise surprise!

[iam416]

what was unlawful about the Trump Tower meeting?
what unlawful act was agreed to?
what legal act was done for the purpose of committing an unlawful act and what was that unlawful act?

These are certainly questions Mueller will have to answer if he wants to push a conspiracy charge.

[iam416]

when people work together by agreement to commit an illegal act. A conspiracy may exist when the parties use legal means to accomplish an illegal result, or to use illegal means to achieve something that in itself is lawful.

You still need agreement to commit an illegal act. In the first example, the agreement is to the illegal result and you're liable even if you only commit overt legal acts. In the second, the agreement is to the illegal means and you're liable even though the overarching purpose is legal.

As the definition you cite says ... "people work together by agreement to commit an illegal act"

[THE_WIZARD_]

STFU

[iam416]

Hmmm. I think I will. Just this one time.

[THE_WIZARD_]

Sweet. Thanks Pal.

xoxoxo