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That's probably right, we have different opinions what a lot is.
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Take six minutes and listen to this. Republican Senator Ben Sasse's take on the tariffs and 12 billion dollar welfare sceme
Of course, I'm sure the #Trumpbuttlickers will discredit Sasse and call him a cuck, snowflake, RINO or some other stupid shit.
I feel like I am watching the destruction of our democracy while my neighbors and friends cheer it onComment
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I think everyone knows that these tariffs and subsidies is a bad idea. There are a lot of people who will have to pretend it's a good idea.Comment
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Sasse is absolutely a cuck. He has been a neverTrumper from day 1 and like most neverTrumper cucks, he would rather spew Conservative ideology and virtue signalling from the losing side (on Sunday morning talk shows or Liberal outlets like NPR) than realize actual Conservative gains.Last edited by Hannibal; July 25, 2018, 10:01 AM.Comment
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He may not be wrong, about this anyways. Congressional Republicans don't have a spine, and if Trump is unable to negotiate any serious bilateral trade deals soon, they are going to lose patience.
I don't like the FDR style farm reimbursement by the tax payers. FDR took it a step further and demanded that farmers burn off their excess crop to keep prices artificially high. Sounds like some scheme that Ocasio-Cortez would suggest we implement. This type of heavy handed economic intervention is what turns a recession into a full blown depression, and what actually extended the great depression by probably 7 years.
Not suggesting he should reverse course yet, but he needs to do what he intends quickly before congress takes back their trade authority.Comment
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reason I think tariffs have to be consideredis because our trades deficit is through the roof with many of the countries we are applying tariffs to
but when your dealing with countries that pay their employees nothing or next to nothing producing goods at a 1/10th of what they are produced for here youre not gonna win.
from the new York times earlier this year
"The United States trade deficit with China climbed to its highest level on record in 2017, a trend that could prompt the Trump administration toward tougher trade actions in the coming months.
The gap between Chinese goods imported to the United States and American goods exported to China rose to $375.2 billion last year, up from $347 billion the prior year, data released Tuesday morning by the Commerce Department showed.
The overall United States trade deficit in goods and services with the world widened 12.1 percent to $566 billion last year, the largest gap since 2008.
Economists said the growing trade deficit stemmed largely from the strength of the United States economy, which helped American consumers afford more imported electronics, clothes and appliances. The declining value of the dollar last year, which makes American products cheaper to buy overseas, also helped to lift exports, but not enough to prevent the gap from widening."
we cant have it both ways
it has to be the consumer who refuses to buy chinese or at least cuts down on it--cant do it through tariffs
and whens the last time anybody here refused to buy something because it was made in chinaComment
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I bought an American flag a few weeks ago, first few i found were made in China
i kept looking until i found an American made flag.
But i also recently spent 1100 dollars on a computer monitor from China. Simply put, there is no American made cruved ultrawide monitor 3440x1440p 34 inches that puts out 120hz at 4ms input lag. With Gsync.
I have a trade deficit with China for 1100. Is that bad for me? Fuck no that monitor is amazing. Is it bad for US monitor manufacturing? Show me the company in the US that makes a comparible monitor. Well, a bit less as i bought it at Micro Center, which employs Americans in the local community.Comment
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The only really decent economic argument that I have seen for tariffs is that it they are a mutually assured destruction strategy that can get other countries to back down on their own tariffs. But that's not really an argument for tariffs as much as it is an argument that we should force other countries to practice the principles of free trade.Comment
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“Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read.” - Groucho MarxComment
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I feel like I am watching the destruction of our democracy while my neighbors and friends cheer it onComment
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Jim Wright
First, he started a trade war.
He had no idea what he was doing, but he started a trade war anyway, all while declaring that it wasn't a trade war.
Guess what? It's a trade war.
And given where things are made nowadays, the ONLY country that CAN'T win a trade war is the United States. It's not the 1950s, folks. We don't make stuff, we buy stuff. And American business has no one to blame but themselves. They've been sending manufacturing overseas for 40 years. They didn't want to pay American workers a living wage. They didn't want to give benefits to American workers. They didn't want to pay American taxes. They didn't want to do their duty to the American Republic. They didn't want to make things in the United States, but they sure loved calling themselves Americans, benefiting from all the things America provides, and trading on America's name. This is the result. Right here. When you don't make anything, you've got nothing to win a trade war WITH.
What's that?
We make money?
Yeah. About that. For a while our wealth could prop up this imbalance. But here's the problem, all that money, decades worth, OUR money, spun up the economies in the rest of the world. Asia is booming. They're a huge market. And manufacturing economies like China are NO LONGER dependent on our money -- and when we drive them away from the US, they easily shift elsewhere, and then THEIR brands become household names in those economies and not ours.
Hell, we don't even make ideas anymore. We outsourced that too.
We hired people overseas to come up with new ideas, to flesh out the concepts, to write the code, to do the tech support.
It didn't happen all at once, but little by little, we empowered those nations.
And within a few decades, we become a backwater, left behind.
This has happened before, you know. There are plenty of historical examples. And we now find ourselves at the mercy of the very Third World countries we hold in contempt.
Here's the really ironic part: Conservatives are terrified of "communism," where government control the means of production ... meanwhile, the result of four decades of outsourcing and offshoring in the pursuit of ever higher profit has effectively moved production completely outside of American control altogether.
It's a trade war. And we're losing. Because we've got nothing to trade that our adversaries can't get elsewhere for less or make for themselves.
We did that.
Trump is a product of the very modern business mindset that created this situation, that values profit above all and ONLY profit.
So long as he gets rich, so long as the rich get richer, the rest of the country can burn.
It's not like they've made a secret of this.
His bluster and clumsy ill-conceived trade war blew up in his face, so he then blamed Americans like Harley-Davidson for not toughing out HIS blunder. He literally expected that others bear the cost, to the tune of billions, for his mistakes -- and if you've been paying attention, this should be no surprise. This IS the mindset of American business. Pollute the rivers, somebody else will clean it up. Poison the population, somebody else will clean it up. Destroy the economy via bad investments, junk bonds, mortgage scams, ponzi schemes? Somebody else will clean it up. And that somebody else is ALWAYS you and me. And that's EXACTLY what Trump expects here. He screwed up, that's okay, WE will have to bail him out. Companies like Harley-Davidson will have to bail him out. You lose your job, your home, your retirement, your savings, your healthcare, that's jut the price you pay so rich people like Ivanka Trump can make her shitty handbags for cheap. You lost your life savings because you got scammed by Trump University? Caveat Emptor, sucker.
Then he blamed everybody else.
Because that too is the modern American businessman, never, ever, ever, take responsibility for your own mistakes. Somebody else will clean it up.
So, NOW, he's taking $12 BILLION of YOUR money to bribe his victims. He's going to pay off American farmers with YOUR money for his mistake just like he paid off those porn stars.
Trump is running America EXACTLY as he said he would.
Yes he is.
That's the ONE thing he told the truth about.
He's running America exactly as he runs his business. He never has to pay for his mistakes.
HE profits. YOU get screwed.
He makes the mess, you get to clean it up.
And I don't know why this would be surprise to anybody.
I warned you son of bitches. I did.
A lot of us warned you this, exactly this, would happen.
If you elect a businessman, you are going to get the business. And you're gonna get it good and hard.
Every. Single. Time.
I feel like I am watching the destruction of our democracy while my neighbors and friends cheer it onComment
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I'm glad that the forum Democrats are angry about a $12 billion dollar subsidy. Does this mean that the approximately $1 trillion that we spend every year on wealth redistribution programs is fair game for discussion now? Yes? Good.
In that case, we'll start with the food stamp budget.
Last edited by Hannibal; July 25, 2018, 01:33 PM.Comment
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Yeah, who can argue with that type of logic. Tariffs and subsidies being a bad idea leading to some food stamp discussion. Ha ha, I'm actually laughing audibly.
His whole trade wars are easy thing cracks me up and people will line up right behind it with impeccable logic like that. No sense in rebutting that, give the people what they want. A lot of the arguments on trade are grounded in a misunderstanding or a complete lack of understanding of comparitive advantage. Even that article CGVT posted kind of exhibited that. The country is not going back to 1950 and that's a good thing.
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I thought about using the untold billions that we spend subsidizing illegal immigration instead, but pretty much any example shows how hilarious it is that after 50 years of anti poverty programs and trillions upon trillions of dollars flushed down the toilet in the form of wealth redistribution, you guys have suddenly become anti wealth redistribution.Originally posted by froot loops View Post
But I'm glad that you guys are finally making a stand!Last edited by Hannibal; July 25, 2018, 02:20 PM.Comment
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