Miscellaneous And Off Topic Subjects

[The Oracle]

Lol, bye Flecia

Felicia, you fucking retard.

[iam416]

It is kind of rah-rah, but the actions are worth looking at. I agree that it that poverty is the single most important factor but I also think that peer influence (not peer pressure) also has a huge impact. "This is how everyone else deals with (specific situation), it appears to be my only option". This morphs into subcultures that further drive the problem.

Yeah, I was going to say that I think there's something to what I would refer to as "community standards." I hesitate to use that term because it suggests some overarching community-wide standard. Drug-related gang violence isn't that. BUT, it is accepted enough. Further, There are community standards even further from the crime that do, more or less, what these guys are doing. 2-parent households, valuing education, jobs as a kid, etc. -- all things that can folks can do to minimize the risk that their kids get sucked in. So, one thing I find interesting about this approach is that it could be argued they're coming in way too late (not as late as incarceration, but not much earlier). They come in a point where cultural and community standards have already created the risk. They're doing their best to reduce the bad outcomes associated with the risk, but they're bailing water on the Titantic.

Anyway, it was worth the read if only for the brief interlude of sensible dialogue. Now, back to your regularly scheduled programming!

[Kapture1]

Switzerland has a high rate of gun ownership and one of the lowest homicide rate in the world. But in that 20 years where violent crime and murder have been cut in half, firearms owned by citizens have doubled to over 300,000,000. If guns in and of themselves were a problem, we would know it. It would be inescapable.

[Jeff Buchanan]

Kap ..... I'd have to look this up but I seem to remember, Switzerland has very different standards of gun ownership than in the US. I don't think handguns are permitted - only rifles and these come from one source - the military. When you are discharged from service, you keep your rifle. I also think there are very strict rules about taking firearms off your property so, no, I don't think you can support the argument, "If guns in and of themselves were a problem, we would know it. It would be inescapable," as you have done in your post using Switzerland's gun ownership as support for it.

[Kapture1]

They do issue conceal carry. Sparingly. So yes they do have hand guns

that said over 300,000,000 guns in the US. Some 10000 ish gun homicides. If the gun was the problem, we would have a fuckton more than some 10000 gun homicides each year.

[Jeff Buchanan]

Still not buying your false equivalency, Kap. The only folks in Switzerland that carry hand guns and have a conceal carry permits are law enforcement and security types.

The gun laws in Switzerland are wickedly tough. It also appears, with the homicide rate being as low as it is in that country, that the enforcement of gun legislation there is much more effective than it is in the US. I could talk about gun culture here v. there too but I won't.

2A, gun rights supporters in the US and the NRA would hate, hate, hate every part of that ride.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_laws_in_Switzerland

PS ..... we both know where we each of us, and for that matter most regular posters here, stand on 2A as it relates to gun rights. I'm not interested in a gun debate. My purpose is to call you on false equivalencies in your wish to advance an argument.

[Ghengis Jon]

A dear friend of mine lives in Switzerland. Her hubby turned in his Army (more accurately militia) rifle, a Sturmgewehr 550. It was taking too much room in the closet he said, so he turned it in. I gave her a lot of good natured static about not mailing it to her ole buddy Jon. Not that I needed another toy, but Swiss arms are like Swiss watches - very high quality.

I'll have to check with Dane, but I believe the firearm usage laws are equally strict. The military firearm you keep in your home is in case you are recalled to duty, not for home defense or target shooting. It is illegal to use that weapon, in your home, for self defense.

An interesting stat - less than half of Swiss households that have a firearm have ANY ammo.

[froot loops]

Saying a lot of gun deaths happen because things escalate in domestic fights and a gun is available is not that controversial. Just read or watch the news. There is a lot of accidental deaths where young children get ahold of a loaded gun as well. To deny that with a "but Switzerland" is to deny reality

[Dr. Strangelove]

Posted a story about this a week or two ago. More chickens coming home to roost for Whirlpool, once a company that was highly in favor of tariffs.

Whirlpool stock plummets by 14.5% as it announces a massive earnings miss. It's largest one-day drop since 1987. It cites steel and aluminum tariffs as the overwhelming reason the company has become far less profitable overnight. Steel prices have risen dramatically.

Friendly reminder that the steel-making industry employs significantly fewer people than the number of manufacturers who make products out of steel.

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/07/24/whirlpool-stock-plunges-as-tariffs-hit-suppliers-steel-costs.html

[iam416]

[Whitley]

Posted a story about this a week or two ago. More chickens coming home to roost for Whirlpool, once a company that was highly in favor of tariffs.

Whirlpool stock plummets by 14.5% as it announces a massive earnings miss. It's largest one-day drop since 1987. It cites steel and aluminum tariffs as the overwhelming reason the company has become far less profitable overnight. Steel prices have risen dramatically.

Friendly reminder that the steel-making industry employs significantly fewer people than the number of manufacturers who make products out of steel.

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/07/24/whir...eel-costs.html

And where will you find the HQ of Whirlpool? Benton Harbor, MI. Whirlpool had a chance many years ago to leave Benton Harbor and that would have been the final nail in the coffin for the city (such as it is). However, they choose to stay and while I have not followed developments there for a few years; I do that they put a lot of money towards fixing up certain parts of the city and the islands within the St. Joseph River.

The fundamental difference between Benton Harbor and a city like Detroit? Detroit----the people want to bring the city back. Many ways can be argued if how they are going about it is the right way (focusing on downtown then the neighborhoods) but the desire is there and that is such a huge part.

[CGVT]

Screenshot 2018-07-24 at 7.29.18 PM.png

[CGVT]

Sarah Huckabee Sanders said on July 23 that President Trump is "exploring the mechanisms to remove security clearance" for six former intelligence officials. (Reuters)

By Paul WaldmanJuly 24 at 1:26 PMEmail the authorhis threattold the press corps that Trump is considering revoking the security clearances of former CIA directors John Brennan and Michael Hayden, former director of national intelligence James R. Clapper Jr., former FBI director James B. Comey, former deputy FBI director Andrew McCabe and former national security adviser Susan E. Rice. All have been publicly critical of Trump in one way or another.

no longer haveNaturally, she provided no details or specifics. But stand back and marvel for a moment that a fiscal year 2016 report from the Director of National Intelligence, at the time there were 4 million Americans with security clearances, which includes not only the staff of agencies such as the Pentagon, the Department of Homeland Security or the CIA, but also former employees and people employed by government contractors, many of whom have never worked for the government. This was actually a decline from a few years before, when the number topped 5 millionOMG these former officials still have security clearances! as though it were something unusual. On April 30, right-wing conspiracy site Gateway Pundit published a piecewent on Fox Newsstillsaid

[Kapture1]

Still not buying your false equivalency, Kap. The only folks in Switzerland that carry hand guns and have a conceal carry permits are law enforcement and security types.

The gun laws in Switzerland are wickedly tough. It also appears, with the homicide rate being as low as it is in that country, that the enforcement of gun legislation there is much more effective than it is in the US. I could talk about gun culture here v. there too but I won't.

2A, gun rights supporters in the US and the NRA would hate, hate, hate every part of that ride.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_laws_in_Switzerland

PS ..... we both know where we each of us, and for that matter most regular posters here, stand on 2A as it relates to gun rights. I'm not interested in a gun debate. My purpose is to call you on false equivalencies in your wish to advance an argument.

The claim was another country as armed as the US would have a much higher murder rate. Clearly not the case. The comparrison wasn't a direct comparison because Switzerland has about 4,000,000 guns privately owned, we have over 300,000,000, but that is near 50% of their population. It's as close as i could get, as there is no other first world nation closer to our guns per person ratio.

so sure you CAN pick apart my example, a direct comparison wasn't what i was shooting for, no pun intended. There is literally no other first world country to compare us too accurately.

and btw, i needed a license to carry my hand gun too. There is two pages of shit thst woukd have disqualified me, had to get training, background checked and fingerprinted to carry my handgun.



the overall point is we are a nation of more guns than people.

300,000,000+ guns
about 10,000 gun homicides per year
about 1,000 accidential gun deaths per year



if guns were a problem in and of themselves, those numbers wouldn't look like that. If law abiding gun owners were the problem, those numbers wouldn't look like that.

[Kapture1]

Accidential gun deaths are typically less than 1,000 per year. All tragic, but in a country of over 300,000,000 guns, that number is a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of a percent. not a lot considering.