Miscellaneous And Off Topic Subjects

[Jeff Buchanan]

I've spoken tongue in cheek about the soap opera going on in DC that includes the DOJ's investigation into Russian meddling in the 2016 presidential election by posting a YouTube video of the famous comedy routine of Abbot and Costello - "Who's on First." It's not easy to keep up with the drama and I read a very good BBC piece on Sunday that laid out what's playing in DC as a 3 season rendering of "House of Cards" with a wiki like encapsulation of the drama and all it's characters. Very good.

Now we have the release by the FBI of the application for the FISA Warrant issued by the FISC to surveil one time Trump campaign FP advisor Carter Page. Bombshell one way or the other? Of course, Trump does his usual Tweet storm following the release of the FISA application asserting the entire FBI investigation is a "witch hunt." (see CGVT's post above - heh).

Anyway, probably because I think the issues surrounding the FBI investigation have been so ridiculously politicized and polarized appropriate Congressional oversight of it, I just didn't pay much attention to it. I wrote off the whole thing as politics as usual while at the same time thinking we should know as much as we can about Russian meddling in US elections so we can protect against it going forward, i.e., we should view the investigation as having little to do with by-stander DJT unless it can be proven he was involved ..... and so far that has not been the case.

So, message to Trump: STFU about this you tool. Message to Congress: stop the very public political bickering over this in the press and let Mueller finish his work and report results to you. Our national security depends on this getting done.

Fact of the matter is that the release of the FISA Application into the public domain really hasn't demonstrated anything substantial with regard to the investigation:

What the document released on Saturday does not detail is much of the rest of the story, or how much the FBI knew about Page's activities in 2016 that did not involve the reporting from Steele. Entire sections of the file, including one under the heading "Clandestine intelligence activities of the Russian Federation," are blacked out.

So, both sides should calm down and let the FBI do it's job. It's important.

https://www.npr.org/2018/07/23/63134...-fisa-document

[crashcourse]

July 20th, 2018, 12:08 PM



He's not winning in 2020. Right now the most the Rs can hope for is to hang onto the Senate in 2018 and get another retiring Supreme Court justice. But, he's losing in 2020. He has, however, driven the Ds so far left that they're in for a righteous asskicking. But, PDJT is #1 on the list for righteous asskickings,so that has to go first.

Feel free to bookmark this one. It's obviously JMO and a prediction.

sounds rather smartyjonesish

all about the turnout

lot of people I know who voted trump in 16 not wanting trump in 20

key is who do the dems run--Hillary has to much baggage-biden to old-pochahantas to far left--you need a much more central candidate to steal votes from the repubs who cant stomach trump

[crashcourse]

far as that fisa warrant goes you better have some pretty strong evidence that carter page IS working with a foreign agent as justification to suirveil him. he was under surveillance for a full year without a single charge being leavied against him.
but its what they used that fisa warrant for that is most disturbing--getting inside the trump campaign--a warrant that expired in October 2017 without charges I might add --so you use a fisa warrant to follow carter page around and he doesn't get charged--as a means to launch a counterintelligence investigation into the trump campaign by the opposition party

[Kapture1]

Something's fucky here

[Jeff Buchanan]

...... far as that fisa warrant goes you better have some pretty strong evidence that carter page IS working with a foreign agent as justification to suirveil him. he was under surveillance for a full year without a single charge being leavied against him.

The point of my post and link to the NPR article was that the release of the FISA application by the FBI reveals nothing that is not already factual in the case of Carter Page. More importantly, the public does still not know what the results of the FBI surveillance of Page revealed. The quote I posted from the NPR article pretty much lays this out and states the redacted portions of FISA application should lead us to believe that if Page was engaged in illegal activity with a foreign agent, the public doesn't know if he was or wasn't.

There are plenty of reasons that law enforcement or intelligence services don't charge a person under surveillance. What bother's me is that the press (and by extension both sides in this debate) are making claims that cannot be supported by the facts.

...... but its what they used that fisa warrant for that is most disturbing--getting inside the trump campaign--a warrant that expired in October 2017 without charges I might add --so you use a fisa warrant to follow carter page around and he doesn't get charged--as a means to launch a counterintelligence investigation into the trump campaign by the opposition party

My reading of your statement here Crash is that you claim that "the opposition party" (the D's) were behind the FBI's "counterintelligence investigation into the trump campaign." The only source making these claims is the media and I'd contend none of these claims are supported by the facts. The media is extrapolating assertions from politicians that, for them, are nothing but suppositions. maybe the DNC or the BO administration was behind it; maybe they weren't. We simply don't know.

I tire of statements on this matter not supported by the facts.

[Kapture1]

fact is the Dossier was used as the main piece of evidence against Carter Page, and the FBI and DOJ withheld the information from the court that the Dossier was unverified oppo research.

They also used media reports where the source was the author of that dossier to validate the claims made in the dossier.

[entropy]

Dems dealing with the extreme wing, worrying that the angry left crowd will keep away the swing voters that are now rejecting Putin's cock holster. Realistic concern imo.


https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/ele...w-they-n893381

looks familiar...

[crashcourse]

cosmopolitan describes page interactions with trump like this

In the August 2016 Washington Post articleHope Hickstold The HillFeb. 15, 2017, interview with PBS Newshour,

[Kapture1]

fitting with recent previous redaction, they are not done for national security concerns, they are to keep from embarrassing the FBI and DOJ.

[crashcourse]

[Jeff Buchanan]

I find some, not all, British media sources to, from what I read, more focused on conclusions based on facts than those based on a person's mere perception of what went down on the Page affair. YMMV.

The one supposition coming from news sources outside of the US, eg, including Reuters, that I tend to agree with is that you can't learn too much about the central issue here - did the D's spy on the Trump campaign and/or did the Trump campaign interact in any substantive way with the Russians and to such an extent that Trump unfairly won the the election. According to a ton of facts, Russian operatives (most likely operating at the direction of Russian Intelligence entities) meddled in the 2016 presidential election. We don't know any details about what this operation's targets or objectives were or if they were achieved.

My view is that the conclusions and hence the assertions Trumpsters are making about this affair, supported by, e.g. Trump's tweets along with interviews of various politicians on Sunday, both claiming the public disclosure of the FISA warrant on Page shows that the dossier circumstance discredits the DOJ and the FBI work to craft an alternate reality. By extension the Mueller probe is discredited as well in this alternate. These conclusions and assertions are purely subjective and not based on any facts in this matter. That's what bothers me.

Another decent piece that touches on the same points as the BBC article with some additional points made is linked below. BTW, Crash, tell me why you feel the British are involved in this and what facts can you offer that they are?

https://www.businessinsider.com/cart...18-7?r=UK&IR=T

[Kapture1]

I find some, not all, British media sources to, from what I read, more focused on conclusions based on facts than those based on a person's mere perception of what went down on the Page affair. YMMV.

The one supposition coming from news sources outside of the US, eg, including Reuters, that I tend to agree with is that you can't learn too much about the central issue here - did the D's spy on the Trump campaign and/or did the Trump campaign interact in any substantive way with the Russians and to such an extent that Trump unfairly won the the election. According to a ton of facts, Russian operatives (most likely operating at the direction of Russian Intelligence entities) meddled in the 2016 presidential election. We don't know any details about what this operation's targets or objectives were or if they were achieved.

My view is that the conclusions and hence the assertions Trumpsters are making about this affair, supported by, e.g. Trump's tweets along with interviews of various politicians on Sunday, both claiming the public disclosure of the FISA warrant on Page shows that the dossier circumstance discredits the DOJ and the FBI work to craft an alternate reality. By extension the Mueller probe is discredited as well in this alternate. These conclusions and assertions are purely subjective and not based on any facts in this matter. That's what bothers me.

Another decent piece that touches on the same points as the BBC article with some additional points made is linked below. BTW, Crash, tell me why you feel the British are involved in this and what facts can you offer that they are?

https://www.businessinsider.com/cart...18-7?r=UK&IR=T

The dossier was their number one piece of evidence. the question you are failing to ask is would the FISA be approved without it? Would the FISA have been approved if the judge knew it was actual unverified Russian propaganda, paid for by political opposition? I tend to think not.

But that's not going to stop the Mueller investigation. even though we know that Russia meddled. Not going to stop until they can find something to impeach the president over, and I know that you will disagree that is what Mueller is doing, but it's what he's doing.

[Jeff Buchanan]

In other news today ...... it's not the elderly dying (end of life care) that is the biggest part of health care spending. I sure thought it was a big part maybe not the biggest but this is surprising:

https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/end-of-life-care-costs-only-9-percent-health-care/

[Kapture1]

I wonder what % the last 5 years of life makes up, if 9% is just the last year.

[entropy]

jeff... I think why is more important in Europe than the who