Miscellaneous And Off Topic Subjects

[Kapture1]

two tiered justice system prevails again!


Poor Rand Paul, little guy can not catch a break. First he was nearly assassinated by a Bernie Supporter, had ribs broken by his neighbor, and now had threats made against him and his family by a Berkely Democrat. Threatened to hack his kids to pieces with an axe.

[Jeff Buchanan]

On the immigration front ...... someone posted a response to my assertion that Congress needs to act that the reason for inaction by the House is the excuse that the President won't sign a compromise bill and the only Immigration Bill he might consider signing is the no compromise bill that's being advanced by the Freedom Caucus (and other Rs who support this approach to one degree or another).

Right now the D's are getting screwed. Trump is correctly labeling them as the party that wants no immigration laws .... everyone that wants to come to America can come. Everyone that's already here can stay. This after the recent protests that are suggesting ICE be eliminated. Of course, that protest is just stupid and demonstrates a lack of understanding about how immigration enforcement actually works and how the various agencies that apprehend, hold and process, then deport illegals do that. OTH, Trump's claims about D's is just as stupidly wrong.

Fucking politics obviates rational public debate and probably does a good job of keeping the various congressional committees charged with improving current immigration law and the processes by which those laws are enforced from doing it. Anyway, if the D's were smart and had a nut-sack, which they don't, they'd force a vote on a compromise bill in the house and let the cards fall where they may. It puts the R's on the defensive which they are not now on.

A majority of Americans favor a path to citizenship for illegals already here. Generally Americans want immigration to be regulated but it should not be as hard as it is in this country to be here. American businesses certainly want the immigrant labor force. IMO, there are segments of the US Economy that are going to suffer with the "no exceptions" policies that Trump and his hard right coalition in Congress and elsewhere is heading. I don't see the average unskilled American laborer picking up a shovel and hoe heading to the fields to harvest crops or picking up a hammer and driving nails on hot roof tops or caring for public and private lawns and gardens or any number of jobs the American laborers, and there are literally hundreds of these kinds of hot, sweaty, hard jobs, eschew. Who's going to do those kinds of jobs? Businesses depending on a well supplied LEGAL and unskilled labor force are going to close ..... and yeah, I know, these businesses "exploit" illegals. Make them legal; give them a simple process to come to America and do the work that most Americans won't do. This is a no brainer.

So, get a damn immigration bill out of Congress. Give Trump his wall; it's a minor thing in the big picture immigration debate. If the Rs want to hold it up, the D's can blame them for that instead of the current situation where the Ds are taking shit from the Rs for being weak on immigration. If the President won't sign a compromise bill then fuck him and the D's can make political hay on that front. It's time for hardball and I don't see anyone in Congress standing up for what the majority of Americans want and are demanding from Congress.

[SeattleLionsFan]

Dems already agreed to pay for the stupid wall for the DREAM act, but the President reneged on the deal.

[Da Geezer]

that is absolutely untrue SLF. Only $1.6 Billion was ever offered by the Dems. The trade was always the four pillars that Trump has as a baseline for his immigration policy (eliminate lottery, merit-based, limited family-based immigration, the wall, etc.) in exchange for citizenship for 1,800,000 Dreamers instead of the 775,000 the Dems proposed. If the Dems cared about the Dreamers, they had their deal offered to them, but they would rather have the issue than solve the Dreamer problem.

After 1987, the Rs should insist on securing the border first, then debate the matter of a path to citizenship for the Dreamers. Jeff has it wrong when he says most Americans favor a path to citizenship for illegals; that only applies to the Dreamers. Unlawfully changing the demographics of the country is now and has always been the purpose of Dem proposals regarding the border.

[Jeff Buchanan]

Geezer, the current version of the Development, Relief, and Education for Alien Minors Act also known as the Dreamers Act or similar misuses of words to describe it, covers illegals ages 12-35 as long as the undocumented alien crossed into the US before the age of 16. As you point out, that's a lot of "kids." Complicating the issue of which illegal aliens get a path to citizen ship is BO's DACA or Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals which Trump rescinded and then gave Congress 6 months to pass comprehensive immigration reform that addressed the Dreamer population (FAIL!!!!). BO's objective with DACA and all of the expansions of it he added on during his administration was to address almost all of those aliens who came into this country legally by visas but over stayed them or came in illegally. It was basically an amnesty program in disguise. Trump was probably right to rescind it. Ball in the Congresses court pretty much what I have been drumming on for a month now.

Terms are important here. I don't disagree with all the rest of the points you raise but I don't have it wrong. The numbers support my statement (most Americans would like to see a path to citizenship for illegals already here) although it might have been better to be more specific by using the term undocumented aliens; such data points on more specific circumstances like do you want undocumented aliens who have committed a crime to have such a path ..... that one is a resounding no. The link below has a host of questions asked about immigration. If you examine these, there is no way you can say Americans want no exceptions for undocumented aliens, meaning they get rounded up and deported, which is what is lawfully happening now and will continue to happen as long as Congress fails to act. Americans want and have good reasons to allow a path to citizenship for most, not all, undocumented aliens. The trump administration and a group of R's in Congress are defying the will of the American people.

https://news.gallup.com/poll/1660/immigration.aspx

[Kapture1]

also failed to mention that the choice among the American people between secured borders and open borders is 80%-20% for securing our borders.

The dems are building their centerpiece of their platform around a loser of an issue. Same thing with the abolish ICE crowd, which includes two of the leading Democrat voices in the US Senate.

[Kapture1]

Or the DNC Chair claiming Ocasio-Cortez is the future of the Democrat party lol. First off she hasn't won anything yet. Second, if the Make America Venezuela Again crowd is the future of the party, then it is the duty of every patriotic American to make sure they never win another election. This country is still a capitalist country. We are the economic engine that all other countries thrive off the back of. Socialists think that we can implement top down government control of the economy and industry with massive redistribution of wealth, and nothing much will change. It's almost as if they don't realize there is a reason why we are the wealthiest nation on the planet, and that there is no better time in the history of the world to live than now, because they seem hellbent on destroying it.

[millenwasmyfavorite]

No thanks on wall.

It makes zero sense.

It would be a lasting remnant of what is proving to be our zoo age.

Hell, have Trump contract Thiel for some of that palantir-like tech and post up some sentries and some reasonable, non-hostile QRF forces within 10m proximity BWO ground transpo of briefed crossing zones. Whoa, then we have a non-staticforce capable of flexing/fluid response and not some medieval, static structure that only serves as a misguided symbol while masquerading as even a 50% solution.

Buildthewall, lockherup, etc., etc., were all just curated dog whistles for clowns like Kapture -- if that shit starts to actually come true then there will be an actual push for a god-emperor Trump... Instead of the buddy-buddy battlecry it currently serves as.

[Kapture1]

[AlabamAlum]

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[Jeff Buchanan]

also failed to mention that the choice among the American people between secured borders and open borders is 80%-20% for securing our borders.

How is that assertion, which is accurate, germane to the claim I made in the post that Geezer said I was wrong on, i.e., "most Americans would like to see a path to citizenship for illegals already here? I'm all for improved boarder security and there are a myriad of ways to do that (e.g. millen....). I'm in favor of that being a top priority for Congress to figure out how to do it. So, the "failing to mention" point you make is irrelevant.

Anyway ..... my view is that there are two other distinctly separate immigration issues, beyond improving boarder security, that Congress has to deal with and they aren't dealing with them very well it would appear:

(1) What is an acceptable level of immigration and given that number how do you determine who gets in?

(2) What is an acceptable way of dealing with undocumented aliens already in the country and is their an appropriate method of stratification of those aliens that identifies who gets to stay (pathway to citizenship) and who gets deported?

[AlabamAlum]

A good NPR piece. Worth the 10 minute listen:

[Kapture1]

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[WingsFan]

Protesters from the group 'Rise and Resist' protested at the Statue of Liberty. They unrolled a banner that read "Abolish ICE" near the base of the statue, some lady (not with them?) climbed on the statue itself. Prompting officials to evacuate the island.

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[Kapture1]

It's probably an 80-20 split on abolishing ICE too lol