Miscellaneous And Off Topic Subjects

[hack]

Pantheism is the worship of the earth. One of its tenants is that man is a curse on the earth and it is best for the planet if he is eliminated. Today, pantheism is seen in the belief of human-caused (I can't spell anthropromorphic) global warming.


That makes no sense. I'm not gonna off myself! How about a more balanced approach, like, let's conserve our resources and consider the knock-on effects so we can have them around for a good long while to support ourselves? Not so crazy, IMO. Don't need to run to the extremes on either side.

I am absolutely an empiricist too. So was John Locke, I believe. Let me give you an example of holding to what works: Capitalism combined with Christianity as produced a result that has produced more goods for more people, and more liberty, than and other combination of economic system and religion in history. The reason is that both systems are unique in viewing man as evil in the purely philosophical sense. Locke would say "stay with what works". Why then not you?

Things work until they stop working. I'm undecided as to whether they have stopped or are close to it or what, but systems are elegant and beautiful at the start and as they age become ridden with loopholes and patchjobs. Is it possible to rewind back to when they worked properly? In this case we'd be giving up the Internet and mobile phones, amongst other things. That's not happening.

[entropy]

I totally agree Talent. I favor unlimited legal immigration. But my understanding is that, in Europe, the refugee flow is heavy with military age young men. The reason is that these are the ones who are "sent ahead" to see if the trip can be made safely. To me, that makes sense.

So, I'd support taking the elderly, women, and children in the short run. I believe that the men who are "going ahead" to judge whether it is safe to flee to Europe would jump at a chance to put their family on a plane or ship to come to the US. Then take the time to really check out the men who follow.

And don't settle these folks where they are unwelcome. Settle them in DC, where the President rules. No problem. 5 of the richest counties in the US are around DC, so let the Muslims settle there, where the folks who work for the government and want this policy live. I'm sure they would be delighted as "public servants" to take in the refugees.

I'm not in favor of unlimited legal immigration... but I am in favor of legal immigration. I actually think shutting down the boards is a bad thing mostly because of how shitty of a job America has done in raising kids. We actually need people to demonstrate what hard work is... and how the American dream is about improving life for yourself and your kids, not the latest gadget purchased by your parents. (might be unfair to all, but when my friends at Ford say they have to hire 10 kids to get 1 to stay.. and these are good union jobs for people with low skills... there is a problem) Regarding unlimited, I believe a society can only support so many. There have been times in our past growth could manage more immigration, but today, I'm not sure. Sounds harsh and you'd want to help out as many as you can, but there are realities to what can be managed. I'd also suggest we look at Africa with equal concern as we do with other parts of the world.


btw.. I don't know the answer, but does the US have a quota in total? by country? Some of the details are unknown to me though I know my own company has sponsored citizenship in the past. If someone has insight, please share.

[entropy]

Isis kicked off Telegram chat app, after it was used to broadcast news about Paris attacks

http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/gadgets-and-tech/news/isis-kicked-off-telegram-chat-app-after-it-was-used-to-broadcast-news-about-paris-attacks-a6740321.html

[entropy]

Historically in the Middle East there were three major civilizations vying for power and influence: The Egyptians, the Turks, and the Persians/Iranians.

Up until the 20th century, the US didn't give a damn about the Middle East. Then they discovered oil. Oil turned the Arabian peninsula (the Middle East's West Virginia) into a new competing power. For the past 90 years the US has allied with one power or another but our longest and most permanent relationship has been with Saudi Arabia. Longer than our 'friendship' with Israel by several decades. Saudi Arabia is more responsible than any other country on the planet for Islamic fundamentalism and terror. Pretty much every major Sunni terror group that exists got its start with Saudi money. And we (the world's self-declared good guys) have (at best) enabled it all or (at worst) given our active support.

agree.. Expanding on this thought, we have a really poor history of supporting a group of people who later become the problem.

[Dr. Strangelove]

If you're not being sponsored by an employer and have no relatives already here, there's a pretty hard quota system. You get put in a line and it could easily take over a decade to be allowed in. Then the better part of another decade to become a naturalized citizen.

[entropy]

do you know much about the quota? #'s ? is it a regional quota?

[Dr. Strangelove]

And frankly I'm pretty disgusted that, like Hack said, we encouraged a civil war to break out in Syria, we caused Iraq's society to fall part, and the House now votes to block refugees from both conflicts from entering America.

Most of those members will also tell you the Saudi dictatorship is the stalwart friend of the American people and stands on the side of freedom

[Dr. Strangelove]

do you know much about the quota? #'s ? is it a regional quota?

It's by country. I believe asylum seekers is by region. Like so many from all of Asia are allowed in unless special provision is made for a certain conflict. Like we did once for Somalians, for example. I believe the continent-wide limits are quite low. Like all Europe is only a few thousand or so.

[entropy]

I wonder how people would vote if asked: Do you want the US to take in refugees or continue to support troops in that area until we can create long lasting peace..

I do think people are wrong to make Obama look like a hero to refugees when he sat on the sideline allowing much of this to happen..

That said, getting involved in any civil war means you chance taking over security for decades.. if peace isn't decided by both, it will take years for the memories to end. Then again, if you don't get involved, you watch thousands die in a conflict that shouldn't. Not an easy decision

[UMStan White]

"I'd expect if he uses force, it will be over whelming.. he will want to say Russia did what the US couldn't in 14 yrs."

You forget how badly Russia fared in Afghanistan--a major clue that we would fail as well.

[Jeff Buchanan]

as I said in my post yesterday.. they're not being very smart. They are going to attract the attention of the entire global community and I doubt the Russia or China will have a leader who is concerned about anything but winning.

Read an interesting article at MSN/from USA Today about what is going down with social media starting with the Charlie Hebdo crimes and now increasing dramatically following the Paris atrocities.

Hackers are taking down Terrorist Web sites both English and Arabic. They are also reporting violations of user rules on all the social media sites that involve terrorist threats or recruitment to terror organizations.

A group called Anonymous, the one where its logo is a guy wearing a Guy Fawkes mask, is getting a lot of pub and they are not alone. Anonymous is made up of mostly activists who use their hacking power to interrupt the voices of organizations they find offensive.

They directed hacking ops against anti-digital piracy campaigns by motion picture and recording industry trade associations. Later targets of Anonymous hacktivism included government agencies of the US, Israel, Tunisia, Uganda, and others; ISIS; child pornography sites; copyright protection agencies; the Westboro Baptist Church and several large multi-national corporations. Anons have publicly supported WikiLeaks and the Occupy Movement (Wiki).

I think you are right, E. The outrage over Paris seems to be massive and an unintended consequence a strategic blunder if you will on the part of ISIS. I think this has been mentioned up-thread (or I read it in an article) that what ISIS wants is a military confrontation between armies of the West and the armies of Islam (ISIS) in an effort to bring to pass prophecies in the Koran.

I don't think they bargained for the Russians or, if it comes to pass, the Chinese. They wanted the soft Americans and Europeans to put troops on the ground producing predictable military failures that have characterized such Military Adventurism since Vietnam in the 60s.

Like I said earlier. I'm hopeful Putin puts a couple of Divisions in Syria. the Russian Fleet in the Med of the Syrian Coast and just fucking wipes out these ass holes. Like I also said, he has the fortitude and the complete disregard for human rights that is needed in this conflict. A great proxy army to have to do the dirty work and get blamed for atrocities. I would look the other way as those atrocities perpetrated by ISIS deserve the kind of retribution the Russian Army, Navy and Marines can easily deliver.

Just watch those toads after the work is done. Gibralter and the historical aftermath needs to be considered ....... OTH maybe the ME needs satellite states governed by merciless Communists.

[UMStan White]

Geezer, were you a member of SDS at the time of the Port Huron Statement? Were you a student at UM at the time? I came to UM shortly after the Port Huron Statement. Several of my closest friends were members of SDS from the beginning. I think Tom Hayden would say Jane Fonda was his wife at one time, not that he was Jane Fonda's husband. Jane Fonda is probably one of the phoniest celebrities to ever exist. She merely reflected the viewpoint of her various husbands from Robert Vadim (or Richard Vadim I don't recall-I'm old) to Ted Turner.

I wasn't in Chicago in August of 68. I was attending my first week of class, but I have marched in Washington at least a half a dozen times protesting everything from the war to apartheid. As for the argument that capitalism and Christianity have been the most influential combination to advance society, one only needs to look historically at the ravages of Christianity--the Crusades, the Spanish Inquisition, the failure to get involved during the Holocaust because that was a"Jewish problem", the attack upon the rights of women, gays, lesbians, etc., Being an English major, and one who reads constantly, the greatest condemnation of what has been done in the name of Christianity can be found in the Brother's Karamazov when Ivan tells the tale of the Grand Inquisitor.

[Jeff Buchanan]

"I'd expect if he uses force, it will be over whelming.. he will want to say Russia did what the US couldn't in 14 yrs."

You forget who badly Russia fared in Afghanistan--a major clue that we would fail as well.

The terrain in Afghanistan favors the defense. The Muhajadeen there were relentless and courageous fighters and still are. They don't need a lot of fancy weaponry to take or hold territory.

The Syrian terrain, OTH, favors mechanized operations the likes of which have the potential of absolutely flailing ISIS. Moreover, ISIS has no air force or if they have planes, they would be so quickly eliminated as an effective force it would be funny in a sick sort of way.

Mechanized operations (Tank warfare), which the Russians possess in spades, sound logistics and air superiority is a recipe for disaster for ISIS. One military Op that the US did conduct correctly was Desert Storm. It was a win until George H called it off. Norman Schwarzkopf conducted a brilliant mechanized assault and could have occupied Baghdad and toppled Saddam easily.

That's the fate of ISIS if the Russians wanted to conduct such an Op and I have no doubt they'd look carefully at Storm'n Normin's Battle Plan.

[Jeff Buchanan]

..... were you a member of SDS at the time of the Port Huron Statement? Were you a student at UM at the time? I came to UM shortly after the Port Huron Statement. Several of my closest friends were members of SDS from the beginning.

Holy Shit you flaming hippy. Were you the long haired turd that spit on me as I walked across the diag in my ROTC Uniform. Heh, heh.

I'm a changed man but we need to talk.

[UMStan White]

Oh so Putin is going to do to ISIS what he has not been able to do to Chechen rebels?