Miscellaneous And Off Topic Subjects

[entropy]

Laws are important and should be enforced to the extent they violate morality. There is a difference between a discussion of who enters a country and what you do with them if caught and separating kids from their parents... and I'm HOPING it isn't true that the US gives you more information about a confiscated purse when you are sent to jail than we gave these parents or children on how to reconnect.

[froot loops]

The status quo is preferable to that response, if it wasn't for the outrage how many kids were going to get separated?. Trying to be a fugazi hard ass with Mexico doesn't help matters. Working with Mexico is better than pissing them off. When you piss them off, they'll let those caravans go right on through.

[entropy]

The status quo is preferable to that response.

water is wet

[froot loops]

I read a decent piece two days ago but I've lost the link. The subject was something like, "What's Really Behind Trump Immigration Policy."

If you go back pre-POTUS campaign and then through it, if you examine the back grounds of key figures involved in developing DJT's immigration policy, it is distinctly racist. Trump would be fine if we had thousands of Norwegians, or any of the Nordic countries, leaking through our boarders. No one within the Trump administration would be concerned about immigration at all, esp. DJT. These are all white people. DJT and those in his administration involved in formulating DJT's immigration policy, his strategies for protecting US boarders, want to protect a predominantly white racial balance and a blance that is eroding at an accelerated pace.

What was one of the first things DJT did concerning immigration and boarder security when he assumed the presidency? He restricted access to the US from predominantly Muslim countries. Of course that didn't go over well and was modified. Concurrently he started talking symbolically and literally about building a wall on the US South Western boarder with Mexico insisting Mexico would pay for it. This was to keep brown people from Mexico, Central and South America from flooding the country from the Mexican/US boarder. The Mexicans would have no part in that.

Instead of telling the truth about what was behind his policies, that is to increase the proportion of whites to non-whites and, in the process, create a predominantly white racial balance in the US, he lied about or created immigration circumstances that were designed to create public support for his immigration policy. For some, talk of keeping illegals out of the US and deporting illegals already in the country, it sounded good. It certainly resonated with a rise in Nationalism that partly got DJT elected in the first place.

Of course, being up-front about Trump's real goals would have been political suicide in the era of rage over things like this. However his framing of the current immigration circumstances, which, IMO, is problematical on a number of levels and should be addressed, lying about it, creating a false reality is much worse. IMO, he's destroyed any credibility he might have gained among moderates on the subject of immigration reform and the necessary leadership from the presidency Trump should be providing on this important front.

To be fair I hope being upfront about racial goals like that would be political suicide in most eras.

[THE_WIZARD_]

water is wet

shaddup

[froot loops]

water is wet

Not to Kapture, just read his posts, he's not happy about the alleged halt to family separations. He thinks it is the Democrats fault because they are allegedly exploiting the issue.

[Jeff Buchanan]

Well, I think most of us agree that Trump is a disaster at PR. Even to his most ardent supporters.... at least the rational ones. My complaint is that, when laid bare, his approach to immigration is distinctly racist, anathema to post Civil War American Values and fundamentally should be rejected. This is the President. He should be leading and instead, he's made a mockery of the concept that the US is a beacon of freedom.

Having said that, illegal immigration is out of control. How one goes about applying a level of control acceptable to the populous is another matter entirely. And, of course, I'll go back to Congress. Given that Trump continues to lie, create his own reality through his pronouncements on immigration, he has relinquished any capacity to lead on this matter. So, fuck him. Congress needs to act and I have no confidence that they can or will.

[CGVT]

Ever had BBQ Mutton in Kentucky?

I have not, but would like to try it.

[THE_WIZARD_]

his approach to immigration is distinctly racist

Uh....wtf?

[froot loops]

Jeff - I'd guess you'd have to make the case that illegal immigration is out of control. Like in relation to what era? what numbers are they, the common wisdom is illegal immigration traffic peaked in the late years of George W.

Back before they started really patrolling the border, the majority of immigration was cyclical, basically migrant workers would go over the border, work and return home. After they started really enforcing the border, that stopped and forced some of the illegal immigrants to settle.

To make the case you have to show that it is out of control. Can there be tweaks to policy? Sure. But to Trump he says crime goes up, the stats don't back him up. Sure you will be able to find illegal immigrants who have committed a crime, but that's a far cry than showing specifically like in averages.

[THE_WIZARD_]

I have not, but would like to try it.

[Kapture1]

Not to Kapture, just read his posts, he's not happy about the alleged halt to family separations. He thinks it is the Democrats fault because they are allegedly exploiting the issue.

nah, as it incentives child trafficking. Again, what's more moral, temporarily separating or increase in child trafficking. moral, I'm going with the first option.

[CGVT]

I don't get to Kentucky very often, but if I get a chance I'll give it a try.

[Kapture1]

Well, I think most of us agree that Trump is a disaster at PR. Even to his most ardent supporters.... at least the rational ones. My complaint is that, when laid bare, his approach to immigration is distinctly racist, anathema to post Civil War American Values and fundamentally should be rejected. This is the President. He should be leading and instead, he's made a mockery of the concept that the US is a beacon of freedom.

Having said that, illegal immigration is out of control. How one goes about applying a level of control acceptable to the populous is another matter entirely. And, of course, I'll go back to Congress. Given that Trump continues to lie, create his own reality through his pronouncements on immigration, he has relinquished any capacity to lead on this matter. So, fuck him. Congress needs to act and I have no confidence that they can or will.

My complaint is his administration is constantly on different pages, communications wise. Who the hell is the comms director? I don't even know. There has never been a competent one.

[Kapture1]