Miscellaneous And Off Topic Subjects

[Jeff Buchanan]

........ JMO people are generally just too decent-minded to understand how to be skeptical enough. And it would be exhausting. People like Trump depend on factors like that in order to do what they do. Once this kind of behavior is tolerated, changing that tolerance is a long process requiring a good bit of tenacity.

Fair opinion but it suggests that the person you are responding to, and maybe Americans in general, aren't deep enough or without the intellectual capacity to articulate an opinion that seeks to find a what-if middle ground or reasonable explanations for a particular behavior, in this case that of PDJT. Now AA may be the intellectual dullard you seem to be suggesting he may be is, in fact, entirely true but despite talents assurances that it is true, I doubt that it is ..... anyway.

I think most most of us here - even AA - are clear headed enough to weigh the value of the media's position on the President's character and be skeptical about him when and where it is appropriate to be skeptical about him and his administration's policies. Are we, as you appear to suggest, the kind of dolts that authoritarians depend on to not question or be skeptical of their behaviors and actions? Americans in general? I don't think so.

Case in point: The badgering of spokespersons ostensibly representing the position of the administration on the policy of separating foreign born children from foreign parents who have unlawfully crossed US boarders gets under my skin a bit. Nevertheless, it seems like a widely held view by Trump's detractors that since his AG is responsible for delineating this process, he and the President hate children and families, especially the ones who illegally crossed the boarder with their parents.

Well, I'd argue that is an incorrect assumption, grossly unfair to the President and the AG and is so for me because I've taken the time to understand how to be skeptical about such things. It is not exhausting. If you want to understand why Sessions made this announcement, why certain immigration laws are being enforced/not being enforced, you have to take the time to read about and understand both sides. Maybe it is unusual for Americans to do that but I think your generalized view that American's aren't skeptical enough and the suggestion that posters here, such as AA, aren't skeptical enough is misplaced.

[CGVT]

It's happening, dude. It is plain as day. No matter how you try to spin it, it is happening. It has not happened in this country before, but it sure as hell has happened in other places in the past.

It's your guy today, what happens when your guy isn't THE guy anymore and it has all been destroyed.

You love your ideology more than you country



It is scary because what we are seeing is the full implementation of a Joseph Goebbels style propaganda campaign. 1) Make the news controversial - insure that the media reports it. 2) The truth is irrelevant. Say things that either forward the Fuhrer's agenda or undermine the opposition. 3) Tell the lie often and loud from multiple sources so that the uniformed masses come to believe it. 4) Reinforce that alternate reality until it is perceived as actual reality. 5) Repeat.

[Kapture1]

It's happening, dude. It is plain as day. No matter how you try to spin it, it is happening. It has not happened in this country before, but it sure as hell has happened in other places in the past.

It's your guy today, what happens when your guy isn't THE guy anymore and it has all been destroyed.

You love your ideology more than you country



It is scary because what we are seeing is the full implementation of a Joseph Goebbels style propaganda campaign. 1) Make the news controversial - insure that the media reports it. 2) The truth is irrelevant. Say things that either forward the Fuhrer's agenda or undermine the opposition. 3) Tell the lie often and loud from multiple sources so that the uniformed masses come to believe it. 4) Reinforce that alternate reality until it is perceived as actual reality. 5) Repeat.

but but but but Hitler lol

[CGVT]

You love your ideology more than your country. I get it.

Carry on

[Kapture1]

You love your ideology more than your country. I get it.

Carry on

If you don't want to answer for the 8 years of 0bama, I don't want to hear your shit. period.

[Kapture1]

your country on socialism

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[WingsFan]

trump-approval-rating--600x327.jpg

[CGVT]

You love your ideology more than your country.

Sad.

[hack]

Fair opinion but it suggests that the person you are responding to, and maybe Americans in general, aren't deep enough or without the intellectual capacity to articulate an opinion that seeks to find a what-if middle ground or reasonable explanations for a particular behavior, in this case that of PDJT. Now AA may be the intellectual dullard you seem to be suggesting he may be is, in fact, entirely true but despite talents assurances that it is true, I doubt that it is ..... anyway.

I think most most of us here - even AA - are clear headed enough to weigh the value of the media's position on the President's character and be skeptical about him when and where it is appropriate to be skeptical about him and his administration's policies. Are we, as you appear to suggest, the kind of dolts that authoritarians depend on to not question or be skeptical of their behaviors and actions? Americans in general? I don't think so.

Case in point: The badgering of spokespersons ostensibly representing the position of the administration on the policy of separating foreign born children from foreign parents who have unlawfully crossed US boarders gets under my skin a bit. Nevertheless, it seems like a widely held view by Trump's detractors that since his AG is responsible for delineating this process, he and the President hate children and families, especially the ones who illegally crossed the boarder with their parents.

Well, I'd argue that is an incorrect assumption, grossly unfair to the President and the AG and is so for me because I've taken the time to understand how to be skeptical about such things. It is not exhausting. If you want to understand why Sessions made this announcement, why certain immigration laws are being enforced/not being enforced, you have to take the time to read about and understand both sides. Maybe it is unusual for Americans to do that but I think your generalized view that American's aren't skeptical enough and the suggestion that posters here, such as AA, aren't skeptical enough is misplaced.

None of you are dullards, Jeff. When I challenged AA a few months back on why he thought Jeff Sessions isn't a liar, he gave me an excellent response. But it doesn't take a voting populace of dullards to fail to understand what's going on around them. There are other places where obvious grifters are inserting themselves into public life, and where voters are struggling to recognize what's happening. In Ontario Doug Ford just won the vote. Brexit passed even though it was laughably easy to do the math. People in advanced countries think there's a big structural difference between their systems and those of banana republics, and that's where the skepticism falls short. The same cognitive dissonance leads to the ``we never thought it would happen here in our neighborhood'' line you hear from the neighbor after the guy next door offs his wife and kids.

The question for countries at risk is whether voters take this seriously or not. Cambridge Analytica faces more serious legal trouble in the UK than it does here, for example. The UK is off to a good start; America may or may not be depending on the pardons/impeachment-conviction ratio. Ontarians knew Rob Ford was a petty thief, but still managed to elect his brother to a larger office in a campaign that focused on the crack smoking rather than the corruption. Canada is not off to a good start.


All of which has little to do with what we here say on the politics thread in a sports forum, but things like assuming a serial liar isn't lying -- especially when he says some untrue thing in exactly the way that he often says untrue things -- are an indication of that struggle I'm talking about to understand and contextualize what is happening around us.

Said much more eloquently here:https://www.lrb.co.uk/v38/n23/david-...democracy-ends.

[Dr. Strangelove]

Thoughts from a former US Attorney on Manafort going to jail. Long thread so I'll summarize

1) Manafort will be in jail until his trial unless the bail ruling is overturned on an appeal. And that is highly unlikely.

2) Manafort won't be separated from the rest of the population in the DC pre-trial lockup, which he says is "no joke". It won't be a bunch of people accused of white-collar crimes.

3) The amount of time Manafort can spend with his attorney will now be drastically reduced. The ability to prepare his defense is now much more difficult.

4) Combine his new cellmates with drastically reduced time with his attorneys, and there's significantly more pressure on Manafort to cooperate.

[iam416]

If you disagree with CGVT you hate America.

I agree with you, Buchanan.

[CGVT]

Sorry to upset the pretty view of the #trumpbuttlickers.

Once again. The truth hurts

[iam416]

Hack:

I don?t understand how being pro-Brexit is grift. Corruption is corruption. What one thinks is bad policy is a separate matter. Not that this takes away from the overall point, but equating everything to grift (including the Korea lies) makes me think I don?t know what grift is.

[iam416]

I guess, CGVT. I hope this act is just that. You?re certainly capable of far better - almost anyone is. Too bad. Enjoy the mud wrestling with kapture.

[Ghengis Jon]

1) The democrats own the media. The media exists to promote the democrat party line.
.

Even for you, that has to be one of the most incredibly stupid things you've ever uttered. Most media (including the largest media outlet - Fox) is owned by conservative conglomerates and businesses, whether it be Disney, Murdoch, or a raft of others. Those are left leaning groups, right? Bunch of goddam libruls right? Here's a news flash, Ace, media owners don't care what's put forth if it makes them money. If you're looking for propaganda and alt-right fantasy, you watch Fox, Drudge, Breifart, whatever. If you're not brain damaged, you watch something else. Doesn't matter if you're right or left or in between, you flip right past the Fox or MSNBC types. Just because the 'other' news doesn't spew Trump's lies and deranged fantasies, doesn't make it the political opposition. It means they simply refuse to lick Trump's ass like you take great pleasure in doing. You're a great example of tribal behavior. Truth, facts and reality are irrelevant - only what your master tells you is worth knowing. Sad!