Miscellaneous And Off Topic Subjects

[hack]

The rules, if they are going to be followed, as they were last stated, say that this thread and the OSU thread are fair game.

[hodgkal]

I understood when politics were deemed out of bounds on the forum. It got pretty hot and heavy back about 10 years ago when Liney and others stepped in. For myself I enjoy engaging in political dialogue as long as it remains civil. We have some pretty smart guys here and I wouldn't mind if we gave this some slack for a short time to see if the Forum can survive. But it needs to be carefully monitored and Liney has done a fantastic job keeping this place alive for nearly 2 decades. The down side to such discussions is the loss of members who leave with hurt feelings. There have been a few.

As for racial issues I think having a Black president has intensified white racism more than at any time I can remember. And now, will having a female president intensify public misogyny in the future?

Another question. Have we ever had any Black posters on this forum. I don't remember any. But in the past we have had some female posters and some pretty sharp ones at that.

Interesting times.

[lineygoblue]

The rules, if they are going to be followed, as they were last stated, say that this thread and the OSU thread are fair game.

The ohio crapfest is whatever it is. I don't care what goes there, and its up to everyone to police themselves.

This thread has a civil discussion that is being moderated by Ghengis and Jeff.

We're all adults here. We should all know how to conduct ourselves as such.

Doc - feel free to discuss anything you like. You've earned the privilege.

[WM Wolverine]

Politics conversations in this forum have a really ugly history (a lot of those members are long gone) and everywhere else on the internet. They need to be moderated closely if we allow them.

[Da Geezer]

Doc: When you say "Interesting times." you remind me of an old Chinese curse: "May you live in interesting times."

I'll do whatever the mods say, but I think this group is pretty respectful. I've learned a lot on this "other things" thread, and I like to follow it.

When somebody new (to me) posts I try to welcome them. If we can find a female poster, that would be fine, but I submit the vast majority of people who will even read a forum like this are male. Keep it the way it is. It's good.

And I guess the (almost all white) students at UMass Amherst were protesting vigorously today in favor of free tuition.

And everybody got a trophy.

[Hannibal]

Look on the bright side. The Muslim takeover is going to render most of this irrelevant.

[hack]

Perhaps the blame shouldn't be aimed entirely, or even mostly, at the students. They are 18-22 years old with little to no real-world experience. They didn't grow up demanding that everyone gets a trophy -- their helicopter parents did. They didn't choose to live in a hypersensitive public sphere -- they didn't even know the difference, and perhaps that had more to do with our litigious society. And they didn't choose to grow up inside or supervised all the time. Their parents and teachers made that judgement call too. I guarantee you it's not the kids who want to have inside recess any time the temperature gets within a sniff of chilly. They want to be outside.

Now that these particular ones are 18-22, and just at that point in their lives where they are starting to have the ability to evaluate what makes sense about their world and what doesn't, I don't see the point in expecting more of them than anyone else. I'm glad they see some things for what they are, but I don't expect them to be wise beyond their age at every opportunity. Especially when so many of their elders, many of whom may be wonderful and brilliant and sage individuals, are collectively a bunch of utter fools. Why would anyone expect so much of them?

[froot loops]

Everyone got a trophy when I was a kid, that's not a new tradition.

[Ghengis Jon]

I'm finding this conversation rather interesting.

Remember when burning the flag as free speech was at the Supreme Court? On one of those late night C-SPAN talk shows, an old guy called up and said he was all for the right to burn the flag. He had survived the Bataan Death March and spent the remainder of the war as a Japanese POW. While in a 4x4x3 cage, he kept his sanity by drawing little American flags in the sand. He said he would (and did) defend the right to free speech, all speech. But he asked who would defend his right to whip that little whippersnapper's ass?

I thought long and hard on that. The point I took out of that was while you have a right to do something you can also have the responsibilty not to. Its fundamentally wrong to beat someone for offensive speech, but I think I would have shook my finger and stomped my foot whispering "stop...stop" for a minute or two before stepping in.

Now that makes me part of the problem by allowing it to continue. Yet I agree with both sides of the issue. Yes you should be able to burn the flag. And yes, I would have a hard time faulting a man with good reason taking issue with that speech.

Rights vs Responsibilty. It seems that being responsible can insure rights, but excerizing rights doesn't guarentee responsibilty.

[Ghengis Jon]

...But in the past we have had some female posters and some pretty sharp ones at that...

Are you referring to Dr Amy Kastin? She was killed in a car crash about 10 years ago in Colorado. A biologist who worked for a fisheries department. She was cool. Her husband sent me an email a week after it happened.

[Jeff Buchanan]

...... I'm glad they see some things for what they are, but I don't expect them to be wise beyond their age at every opportunity. Especially when so many of their elders, many of whom may be wonderful and brilliant and sage individuals, are collectively a bunch of utter fools. Why would anyone expect so much of them?

Good point.

There is something missing in the development of critical thinking in today's college kids, and in the generation immediately preceding them, whatever that generation is called. Couple that with an expanding population of intellectually and economically starved citizens along with a large sub-population, similarly categorized, comprised of legal and illegal immigrants and you have a magnificent brew for social unrest stirred up by provocateurs, with a wide range of agendas, who wish to take advantage.

University is THE place for the kind of discourse, face to face, that E and Geezer are advocating for. It is frighteningly disappointing that the University of Missouri seems to be devoid of advocacy among its faculty for such discourse. Huge failing and fundamental to the social unrest now present beyond the U of M.

Whitlock made it clear to me that elements of Missouri's faculty had an ax to grind and did so by using young minds to serve their purpose. Once the anger was fomented, others, with equally foolish agendas, stepped in to stir the pot and we have what we have.

It is too bad that the crux of the matter has received so little attention but not at all surprising given the intellectual shallowness of most of those reporting on it.

[froot loops]

I found that Whitlock article to be self serving pablum.

[hack]

There is something missing in the development of critical thinking in today's college kids, and in the generation immediately preceding them, whatever that generation is called.


Well I don't know about. Sometimes I might agree. There's no denying that the critical skills that once were injected into college kids back when universities were institutes of higher education has given way to extracting maximum revenue from them first and foremost. The job market does not value a broad liberal arts degree, and the thinking skills acquired along with it, so much any more.

Yet at the same time, I am often impressed with many millenials for their ability to cut through the bullshit. I work with those kids frequently, and they can be absolutely maddening for their selfishness or incompetence or willingness to bluff their way through things and then cover their asses, but when the work's done and you go for a few drinks you often find a smart person who is very carefully evaluating the adult world they have just entered, fairly alarmed at what they see, and protecting themselves accordingly.

So I'm thinking that despite most people involved in universities, from all angles, sharing a crappier attitude toward the whole thing than a few decades ago, some kids are still managing to come to adulthood with some wisdom about them. They're just arriving there in a different way, and it's showing in different ways.

[Jeff Buchanan]

..... uplifting.

I'm a whole lot more cynical. I am trying very hard in my later years not to be.

It's hard.

[hack]

It sure is! But hey - my kids still have to matriculate in this system and find their way as adults. You can be proud yours have done so. Comfort there. I still have a massive stake in this crapfest.