Miscellaneous And Off Topic Subjects

[Ghengis Jon]

Only the Fox and Friends crowd scream collusion. Certainly, there are those of us who hope that removable activities have occurred to remove the POSOTUS, but no one that I know believes there was actual collusion by Chump. There was attempted collusion as the Russian meeting demonstrated, but I don't know if that rises to criminal behavior without conspiracy. I'm far more interested in Russian meddling in the elections and how it can be prevented in the future. The fact that Chump's slimy minions are going down is simply a bonus.

If America is lucky, Chump's past criminal activities will come to light and the dufus will get the boot. But I'd much rather have Chump's puppet master prevented from meddling in our elections again.

[Jeff Buchanan]

Only the Fox and Friends crowd scream collusion. Certainly, there are those of us who hope that removable activities have occurred to remove the POSOTUS, but no one that I know believes there was actual collusion by Chump.......

Agreed. While I enjoy the repartee in this thread if only to get a glimpse of arguments on all sides of an issue, hammering/defending POTUS is silly stuff. Entertainment value though is high!

There are some real issues in this country that go beyond Trump's behavior. It's too bad traditional media loses sight of them ..... but we've had that discussion so, is what it is.

[hack]

It's fucking simple. They changed the Ukraine policy in the GOP platform on request. It's not the big-scale collusion that they attempted and in some ways have succeeded with, but that's not the point. The bigger picture here is that the White House has been turned into a Trump Family sales office. Corruption is the real story; collusion is a facilitative side show.

America has a chance to right the ship, but you aren't special. If corruption is normalized you'll follow the same route as all the others. You've already down that path a fair bit, because you have already built up a tolerance to corruption that isn't obvious and smacking you in the face. The only thing for sure is that things won't stay the same. If various Trumps, Kushners, Zinkes and others can act with impunity, the corruption factor is going to get a lot bigger. If they don't, it will get smaller. From here things will go in one way or the other.

[Kapture1]

Only the Fox and Friends crowd scream collusion. Certainly, there are those of us who hope that removable activities have occurred to remove the POSOTUS, but no one that I know believes there was actual collusion by Chump. There was attempted collusion as the Russian meeting demonstrated, but I don't know if that rises to criminal behavior without conspiracy. I'm far more interested in Russian meddling in the elections and how it can be prevented in the future. The fact that Chump's slimy minions are going down is simply a bonus.

If America is lucky, Chump's past criminal activities will come to light and the dufus will get the boot. But I'd much rather have Chump's puppet master prevented from meddling in our elections again.

ask 0bama

https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2018/03/why-the-hell-are-we-standing-down/

?Why the Hell Are We Standing Down??
The secret story of Obama?s response to Putin?s attack on the 2016 election.





At this point, a group of NSC officials, committed to a forceful response to Moscow?s intervention, started concocting creative options for cyberattacks that would expand the information war Putin had begun.

Michael Daniel and Celeste Wallander, the National Security Council?s top Russia analyst, were convinced the United States needed to strike back hard against the Russians and make it clear that Moscow had crossed a red line. Words alone wouldn?t do the trick; there had to be consequences. ?I wanted to send a signal that we would not tolerate disruptions to our electoral process,? Daniel recalled. His basic argument: ?The Russians are going to push as hard as they can until we start pushing back.?

Daniel and Wallander began drafting options for more aggressive responses beyond anything the Obama administration or the US government had ever before contemplated in response to a cyberattack. One proposal was to unleash the NSA to mount a series of far-reaching cyberattacks: to dismantle the Guccifer 2.0 and DCLeaks websites that had been leaking the emails and memos stolen from Democratic targets, to bombard Russian news sites with a wave of automated traffic in a denial-of-service attack that would shut the news sites down, and to launch an attack on the Russian intelligence agencies themselves, seeking to disrupt their command and control modes.

Knowing that Putin was notoriously protective of any information about his family, Wallander suggested targeting Putin himself. She proposed leaking snippets of classified intelligence to reveal the secret bank accounts in Latvia held for Putin?s daughters?a direct poke at the Russian president that would be sure to infuriate him. Wallander also brainstormed ideas with Victoria Nuland, the assistant secretary of state for European affairs and a fellow hard-liner. They drafted other proposals: to dump dirt on Russian websites about Putin?s money, about the girlfriends of top Russian officials, about corruption in Putin?s United Russia party?essentially to give Putin a taste of his own medicine. ?We wanted to raise the cost in a manner Putin recognized,? Nuland recalled.

One idea Daniel proposed was unusual: The United States and NATO should publicly announce a giant ?cyber exercise? against a mythical Eurasian country, demonstrating that Western nations had it within their power to shut down Russia?s entire civil infrastructure and cripple its economy.

?Why the hell are we standing down? Michael, can you help us understand? ?
But Wallander and Daniel?s bosses at the White House were not on board. One day in late August, national security adviser Susan Rice called Daniel into her office and demanded he cease and desist from working on the cyber options he was developing. ?Don?t get ahead of us,? she warned him. The White House was not prepared to endorse any of these ideas. Daniel and his team in the White House cyber response group were given strict orders: ?Stand down.? She told Daniel to ?knock it off,? he recalled.

Daniel walked back to his office. ?That was one pissed-off national security adviser,? he told one of his aides.

At his morning staff meeting, Daniel matter-of-factly said to his team that it had to stop work on options to counter the Russian attack: ?We?ve been told to stand down.? Daniel Prieto, one of Daniel?s top deputies, recalled, ?I was incredulous and in disbelief. It took me a moment to process. In my head I was like, ?Did I hear that correctly?'? Then Prieto spoke up, asking, ?Why the hell are we standing down? Michael, can you help us understand?? Daniel informed them that the orders came from both Rice and Monaco. They were concerned that if the options were to leak, it would force Obama to act. ?They didn?t want to box the president in,? Prieto subsequently said.

It was a critical moment that, as Prieto saw it, scuttled the chance for a forceful immediate response to the Russian hack?and keenly disappointed the NSC aides who had been developing the options. They were convinced that the president and his top aides didn?t get the stakes. ?There was a disconnect between the urgency felt at the staff level? and the views of the president and his senior aides, Prieto later said. When senior officials argued that the issue could be revisited after Election Day, Daniel and his staff intensely disagreed. ?No?the longer you wait, it diminishes your effectiveness. If you?re in a street fight, you have to hit back,? Prieto remarked.

[iam416]

I guess we all have things that we to post to generate disgust and vent on. Some more supported than others.

PA-18 election in two days. Romney won the district by 17. Trump won it by 20+. This is Rick Santorum's old seat. But the Republican candidate is in trouble and Trump has privately bashed him.

Yeah, the Ds have definitely run a good candidate and have a huge motivation advantage. The Rs, importantly, have not run a bad candidate (like, say, Moore) -- just milquetoast.

Only the Fox and Friends crowd scream collusion.

You must only watch Fox and Friends, then. I mean, it's an article of faith amongst the #GentryProgs -- the key term being faith.

I certainly agree with the gist of your post -- let's focus on making sure Russia (or any other country) doesn't tamper with our elections -- at least in the wikileaks way (not sure what you're going to do about social media).

But good lord, man -- the collusion smear has full voice with the #GentryProgs.

[iam416]

It's funny how canards get started: https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/b...rticle/2641705

Apparently #GentryProgs point to this drafting process and the removal of a pledge to provide arms to Ukraine ad COLLUSION!!!! Hilariously inept on its own convention terms, that argument looks, if possible, even more specious in view of that fact that PDJT is providing arms to Ukraine: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.bb4d1b24dfb3 and https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...1b6_story.html

If only Obama had done so. He must have been on the take from the Russians. Explains his half-assed handling of the Russian efforts to meddle with our elections.

Oh those #GentryProgs. No facts, just right!

[millenwasmyfavorite]

Small arms. Very strong.

Certainly, no Javelins.

I don't have time to spin-up Obama's history w/ Russia.

But, if we're spinning up the idea that Trump is actually harder on Russia than Putin cause he tossed a few rifles to Ukraine, seems pretty pointless.

[hack]

Spun bullshit preying on confirmation bias is how things get started. You could do worse than the Washington Examiner, but you could also do a whole lot better. Trump admitted the language on Ukraine was softened, so we have it straight from the source and do not need to rely on spun bullshit.

This ``PJDT is providing arms to Ukraine" angle is a direct attack on the role you play here and its supposed fealty to process. Do a better job playing that role, or it may have to be redefined.

[iam416]

I don't have time to spin-up Obama's history w/ Russia.

But, if we're spinning up the idea that Trump is actually harder on Russia than Putin cause he tossed a few rifles to Ukraine, seems pretty pointless.

No, please do. I'd love hear how Monarch Obama worked to deter and stop Russia.

[iam416]

This is worth repeating since it remains unchallenged:

It's funny how canards get started: https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/b...rticle/2641705

Apparently #GentryProgs point to this drafting process and the removal of a pledge to provide arms to Ukraine ad COLLUSION!!!! Hilariously inept on its own convention terms, that argument looks, if possible, even more specious in view of that fact that PDJT is providing arms to Ukraine: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.bb4d1b24dfb3 and https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...1b6_story.html

If only Obama had done so. He must have been on the take from the Russians. Explains his half-assed handling of the Russian efforts to meddle with our elections.

Oh those #GentryProgs. No facts, just right!

Those crazy #GentryProgs will believe any ol' thing about PDJT and then shamelessly peddle the falsehood.

#NoRulesJustRight

[AlabamAlum]

I was recently playing a French Defense Winawer (Poisoned Pawn variation). My opponent was not familiar with the line. After the grind; he was wrecked and resigned. He asked me about the line and I told him that I learned it from the the renowned Lithuanian champion, GM Gentry Prog.

I hope he googles Gentry Prog and ends up at this site.

[iam416]

Heh heh

[millenwasmyfavorite]

No, please do. I'd love hear how Monarch Obama worked to deter and stop Russia.

My concern wasn't your lack of time.

I would caveat: I'm not arguing that he did a great job. I'm not arguing that the plan that was executed was the best. I'm not a big fan of Obama, but that doesn't eliminate entire realities for me.

Putin clearly engaged Trump w/ intention of eliminating a number of actions Obama put in place against him. Doesn't that indicate some amount of effectiveness?

I don't think we have clear facts on Obama's last few months/transition period in terms of what information was known and passed on. I don't think we will know a great deal more until the investigation is wrapped up.

But, to hang a hat on small arms, the hilariously strange 59 Tomahawk salvo on an empty airfield runway in Syria, and the bizarre tic/proxy battle... Those are mostly meaningless events ramped up conveniently at the fever pitch of: Why the fuck does this guy love Russia so much.

I'm not a fan of testimonials or people who rely on them to be liked or to make a point. So, Trump doing it every time he is accused of something is pretty annoying/discrediting to me.

He's the least/most of anything he's been told he needs to detest/adore.

[iam416]

But, to hang a hat on small arms, the hilariously strange 59 Tomahawk salvo on an empty airfield runway in Syria, and the bizarre tic/proxy battle... Those are mostly meaningless events ramped up conveniently at the fever pitch of: Why the fuck does this guy love Russia so much.

Yeah, man, whatever. Lots of bluster and digression out the ass. We're not going to be remotely close so don't waste your time defending Monarch Obama.

The issue is arms sales to the Ukraine. Yeah, sure, PDJT and the Rs adopted a platform, after some debate, that basically kept shit the same as what the Monarch was doing. I agree, not as effective as it could be, but whatever. He should have upped the ante over the cowardly Monarch immediately, but I'm glad he eventually got to it.

Meanwhile, to play the dumbfuck rhetorical question game -- if these arms are so meaningless then why are the Ukrainians accepting them. They must think they can do some good, right? LOL. I wonder if the Russians consider this meaningless? I bet there are some good quotes about how they don't like this one bit...why? LOL.

OF COURSE it's mostly symbolic. But, the context of my original point was the #GentryProg mush-brained "collusion" conspiracy nonsense that relied on US Policy toward the Ukraine as evidence thereof.

[hack]

Trump said it himself, so you offered me nothing challenging. Rant on all you want, with your adjectives and your hashtags and your LOLing, but the words came out of his mouth and anyone can hear them repeated online.