Miscellaneous And Off Topic Subjects

[SeattleLionsFan]

You aren't a birther? So you believe Obama was born in the United States?

[Kapture1]

Kapture- You've undoubtedly noticed that the Nation article you linked now contains a lengthy Editor's Note (some might call it a disclaimer) that was added over a month after initial publication. This was done because (the Editors acknowledge) the initial publication exaggerated the certainty with which your claim was made and that even within this VIPS groups, the conclusion that it was an internal leak is hotly contested.

Furthermore, the Nation's love affair with Russia did not end with the collapse of communism. One of their most famous contributors is Stephen Cohen; his wife is the Editor of the magazine. Cohen has a long history, going all the way back to the Soviet days, of urging close alliance with Russia. His detractors would describe him as a Kremlin apologist. Most of his current writing is devoted to proving the West has maligned Putin and he only acts out of necessity.

I read the editors note before posting it. It sure as shit doesnt read like a disclaimer



"This journalistic mission led*The Nation*to be troubled by the paucity of serious public scrutiny of the January 2017 intelligence-community assessment (ICA) on purported Russian interference in our 2016 presidential election, which reflects the judgment of the CIA, the FBI, and the NSA. That report concluded that Russian President Vladimir Putin personally ordered the hacking of the DNC and the dissemination of e-mails from key staffers via WikiLeaks, in order to damage Hillary Clinton?s candidacy. This official intelligence assessment has since led to what some call ?Russiagate,? with charges and investigations of alleged collusion with the Kremlin, and, in turn, to what is now a major American domestic political crisis and an increasingly perilous state of US-Russia relations. To this day, however, the intelligence agencies that released this assessment have failed to provide the American people with any actual evidence substantiating their claims about how the DNC material was obtained or by whom. Astonishingly and often overlooked, the authors of the declassified ICA themselves admit that their ?judgments are not intended to imply that we have proof that shows something to be a fact.?

That is why*The Nation*published Patrick Lawrence?s*article*?A New Report Raises Big Questions About Last Year?s DNC Hack.? The article largely reported on a recently published memo prepared by Veteran Intelligence Professionals for Sanity (VIPS), which argued, based on their own investigation, that the theft of the DNC e-mails was not a hack, but some kind of inside leak that did not involve Russia."

[Dr. Strangelove]

You're intentionally leaving out other parts of the the disclaimer, namely this:

"We have obtained such a review in the last week from Nathan Freitas of the Guardian Project. He has evaluated both the VIPS memo and Lawrence’s article. Freitas lays out several scenarios in which the DNC could have been hacked from the outside, although he does not rule out a leak. Freitas concludes that all parties “must exercise much greater care in separating out statements backed by available digital metadata from thoughtful insights and educated guesses.” His findings are published here.



We have also learned since publication, from longtime VIPS member Thomas Drake, that there is a dispute among VIPS members themselves about the July 24 memo. This is not the first time a VIPS report has been internally disputed, but it is the first time one has been released over the substantive objections of several VIPS members. With that in mind, we asked Drake and those VIPS members who agree with him to present their dissenting view. We also asked VIPS members who stand by their report to respond."

****


The dissent by members of this VIPS group that you're touting as unimpeachable is below. It was signed by Scott Ritter, among others. And at least one of the authors of the original article has since backed away from his original conclusions.

https://www.thenation.com/article/a-leak-or-a-hack-a-forum-on-the-vips-memo/#vips-dissent

The bottom line: This VIPS memo was hastily written based on a flawed analysis of third-party analyses and then thrown against the wall, waiting to see if it would stick. This memo could have cited the critical questions raised in the third-party analyses of “Guccifer 2.0” while also asking why the three US intelligence agencies have yet to provide any actual hard proof following their January 6, 2017, assessment.


The VIPS memo is now increasingly politicized because the analysis itself was politicized. It deals only with alleged “Guccifer 2.0” hacking and makes the classic apples-versus-oranges mistake. In an ideal world, VIPS would at least retract its assertion of certainty. Absent real facts regarding proof of leaks or hacks (or both), how many hypotheses can one copy onto the head of a digital pin?

[Kapture1]

You aren't a birther? So you believe Obama was born in the United States?

Sure.

I remember stating that even if he wasn't it didnt make him ineligible to be president because his mom was an American.

I think the scandal is that he entered college as a foreign student designation and was admitted with poor grades because of it (he was a self admitted bad student who often blew off high school classes to smoke pot on the beach). But it is my own personal speculation with no evidence to back it up and we will never know because his records are sealed. Not saying I believe he wasn't born in the US, but that he applied to college as a foreigner.

[Kapture1]

You're intentionally leaving out other parts of the the disclaimer, namely this:

"We have obtained such a review in the last week from Nathan Freitas of the Guardian Project. He has evaluated both the VIPS memo and Lawrence?s article. Freitas lays out several scenarios in which the DNC could have been hacked from the outside, although he does not rule out a leak. Freitas concludes that all parties ?must exercise much greater care in separating out statements backed by available digital metadata from thoughtful insights and educated guesses.? His findings are published here.



We have also learned since publication, from longtime VIPS member Thomas Drake, that there is a dispute among VIPS members themselves about the July 24 memo. This is not the first time a VIPS report has been internally disputed, but it is the first time one has been released over the substantive objections of several VIPS members. With that in mind, we asked Drake and those VIPS members who agree with him to present their dissenting view. We also asked VIPS members who stand by their report to respond."

****


The dissent by members of this VIPS group that you're touting as unimpeachable is below. It was signed by Scott Ritter, among others. And at least one of the authors of the original article has since backed away from his original conclusions.

https://www.thenation.com/article/a-leak-or-a-hack-a-forum-on-the-vips-memo/#vips-dissent

The bottom line: This VIPS memo was hastily written based on a flawed analysis of third-party analyses and then thrown against the wall, waiting to see if it would stick. This memo could have cited the critical questions raised in the third-party analyses of ?Guccifer 2.0? while also asking why the three US intelligence agencies have yet to provide any actual hard proof following their January 6, 2017, assessment.


The VIPS memo is now increasingly politicized because the analysis itself was politicized. It deals only with alleged ?Guccifer 2.0? hacking and makes the classic apples-versus-oranges mistake. In an ideal world, VIPS would at least retract its assertion of certainty. Absent real facts regarding proof of leaks or hacks (or both), how many hypotheses can one copy onto the head of a digital pin?

Jesus i thought that was the start of the article lol. Ive never seen such a damn lengthy editors note in my life

[SeattleLionsFan]

Believing he was a citizen is different than believing he was born in Hawaii. I'm glad you don't believe that ridiculous lie that only a moron and a racist could believe.

Why would you think he applied as a foreign student if no one has seen the records? And was that inappropriate given the time he spent out of the country?

[Kapture1]

Pathetic. You cite Wash Post and other MSM sites because they do actual reporting. Your garbage website, Breitbart, is similar to Drudge. It mostly repackages and regurgitates news articles written by other outlets.

And you clearly are a believer in Newspeak.

Thank you for making it plain that your belief in the accuracy of a Washington Post story rests solely upon whether the article makes you happy or not. That seems like a common trait of Trump supporters and the Great Orange buffoon himself.

No, i cite them because the left believes then without question, even though their bias is glaringly obvious to anyone not in the left. I can post rightwing sources all day but why when folks like you will dismiss the publications prior to reading it?

[Dr. Strangelove]

Yeah, well that's the truth. The Editor's note/dissent/rebuttal are longer than the original article, that's for sure.

I would finally note that more members of this VIPS groups signed the dissent than signed the original memo. And that the analysis upon which the memo was later based was mostly conducted by someone using the pseudonym "The Forensicator". At least according to the Nation, he has since backed down somewhat from his previous certainty, going as far as to say "There may be other over-ambitious extrapolations made by the VIPS in their report.”

[Dr. Strangelove]

No, i cite them because the left believes then without question, even though their bias is glaringly obvious to anyone not in the left. I can post rightwing sources all day but why when folks like you will dismiss the publications prior to reading it?

Half the links on Breitbart will contain links to the NY Times, the Wash Post, Politico, or numerous other MSM sources. Most of their 'reporting' is like Yahoo. They are 'reporting' on what other outlets are publishing, not developing the stories themselves.

Is there are hard rule when we can trust and when not to trust these sources? Because clearly Breitbart thinks they have credibility, but only sometimes.

Educated guess: "sometimes" depends on whether the story is favorable to Trump or not.

[Dr. Strangelove]

Bottom line: If you tell people that "This newspaper is garbage. Don't believe a word it says", don't hours later share an article from that newspaper saying "hey everybody read this". It probably, I dunno, hurts your credibility when you affect outrage and indignation?

Sort of like pretending to be horrified that anyone would dare challenge the word of a former military general while working for someone that does it all the time?

[Kapture1]

Believing he was a citizen is different than believing he was born in Hawaii. I'm glad you don't believe that ridiculous lie that only a moron and a racist could believe.

Why would you think he applied as a foreign student if no one has seen the records? And was that inappropriate given the time he spent out of the country?

I mean first off i dont understand how the notion that he wasnt born in the US is a racist attack. The conspiracy was started in an email from a Hillary donor or PAC or whatever. When the left claimed McCain was ineligable because he was born in Panama back in 2008, was that racist?

Yes that would be inappropriate for a US citizen to apply to an Ivy league school as a foreign transfer. The only reason i believe that is his bio in the promotional pamphlet from his literary agency that stated he was born in Kenya and raised in Indonesia and Hawaii. Seems likely that was his story when it benefited him. They came out and stated it was their mistake but i dont necessarily believe it was a mistake. Again, i fully admit it is a hunch i have. I think that his grades were shit as he talked about being a bad student in high school. Bad students in high school don't typically get accepted to Columbia even if they had good grades at a place like Occidental for 2 years.

[Kapture1]

Bottom line: If you tell people that "This newspaper is garbage. Don't believe a word it says", don't hours later share an article from that newspaper saying "hey everybody read this". It probably, I dunno, hurts your credibility when you affect outrage and indignation?

Sort of like pretending to be horrified that anyone would dare challenge the word of a former military general while working for someone that does it all the time?

Again, i will tell you CNN is shit all day, but then will turn around and post a CNN article if it refutes your talking points or is an article that i want to you actually read. I tend not to get my news from breitbart either, just using breitbart as an example.

[Kapture1]

Yeah, well that's the truth. The Editor's note/dissent/rebuttal are longer than the original article, that's for sure.

I would finally note that more members of this VIPS groups signed the dissent than signed the original memo. And that the analysis upon which the memo was later based was mostly conducted by someone using the pseudonym "The Forensicator". At least according to the Nation, he has since backed down somewhat from his previous certainty, going as far as to say "There may be other over-ambitious extrapolations made by the VIPS in their report.?

Less confident that it was a leak but i dont rule out a leak. Does it concern you that the FBI, CIA and NSA never examined the DNC server before coming to their conclusion?

[Dr. Strangelove]

I mean first off i dont understand how the notion that he wasnt born in the US is a racist attack. The conspiracy was started in an email from a Hillary donor or PAC or whatever. When the left claimed McCain was ineligable because he was born in Panama back in 2008, was that racist?

Yes that would be inappropriate for a US citizen to apply to an Ivy league school as a foreign transfer. The only reason i believe that is his bio in the promotional pamphlet from his literary agency that stated he was born in Kenya and raised in Indonesia and Hawaii. Seems likely that was his story when it benefited him. They came out and stated it was their mistake but i dont necessarily believe it was a mistake. Again, i fully admit it is a hunch i have. I think that his grades were shit as he talked about being a bad student in high school. Bad students in high school don't typically get accepted to Columbia even if they had good grades at a place like Occidental for 2 years.

I think it was felt that many people were more apt to believe Obama was born in Kenya and/or was a secret Muslim who hated America because:

1) He was black
2) His name

Would a a white guy named Roger Jones with the same background have been subjected to the same level of scrutiny? And you bring up McCain, but that was never thrown around by anyone serious and didn't go on for years and years. Trump was relentless for quite a while pursuing this. Never apologized. Instead took credit for 'uncovering the truth', as if it hadn't been truly known before.

And yeah, a lot of the dirtiest stuff used against Obama in 2008 first emerged in the Clinton camp. But if it's a fanatical Clinton supporter you're wanting, you'll have to track down iam416 and make him answer for his crimes.

Heh heh heh

[Kapture1]

I think it was felt that many people were more apt to believe Obama was born in Kenya and/or was a secret Muslim who hated America because:

1) He was black
2) His name

Would a a white guy named Roger Jones with the same background have been subjected to the same level of scrutiny? And you bring up McCain, but that was never thrown around by anyone serious and didn't go on for years and years. Trump was relentless for quite a while pursuing this. Never apologized. Instead took credit for 'uncovering the truth', as if it hadn't been truly known before.

And yeah, a lot of the dirtiest stuff used against Obama in 2008 first emerged in the Clinton camp. But if it's a fanatical Clinton supporter you're wanting, you'll have to track down iam416 and make him answer for his crimes.

Heh heh heh

I dont really care what it felt like. Feelings don't matter much to me. Neither do the accusation of racism based on feelings. But if you wanted to argue that he was some secret Muslim that hated America, there are plenty of other things one could cite that has nothing to do with his name or his skin color lol.