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I am sorta on your side on this one...I don't think violence will solve it...but I also don't like the "ignore them and they will go away" solution that's been suggested in places. I think they need to be confronted in SOME way. So I'll have to think on it, to be honest.
Same quandry for me. I underestimated the degree of legitimacy and empowerment the alt-right scumbags have received from Trump and his acolytes...at this point I don't think they can be marginalized. In hindsight, it was obvious. I guess I thought it was just a Missouri thing, being embedded in the belly of the beast so to speak, but apparently this shadow has been slowly spreading everywhere.
Maybe the only response is to fight, figuratively and if necessary, literally. Maybe its a fight that needs to be had.
The violence part if it fouls up everything. It takes away from the truly repugnant shit the Nazis were chanting Friday night and Saturday morning. It gives those jokes a way to Whataboutism, from the stuff I've seen and read, it doesn't seem like the counterprotesters started the violence but they did participate.
These guys were an armed militia March through Charlottesville and they weren't marching peacefully. I'm all for the right to assemble, but with the open carry laws in Virginia it seemed like they were pushing the boundaries of protected speech.
It seems like some ting that needs a bipartisan commission on what happened.
Same quandry for me. I underestimated the degree of legitimacy and empowerment the alt-right scumbags have received from Trump and his acolytes...at this point I don't think they can be marginalized. In hindsight, it was obvious. I guess I thought it was just a Missouri thing, being embedded in the belly of the beast so to speak, but apparently this shadow has been slowly spreading everywhere.
Maybe the only response is to fight, figuratively and if necessary, literally. Maybe its a fight that needs to be had.
Right. I'm not kidding or exaggerating when I say David Duke, Richard Spencer, and other unequivocally racist assholes were complimenting and thanking Trump for his press conference today. They are more emboldened than ever.
Alabama runoff will be Trump's choice (Strange) vs. Ol Ten Commandments Moore. Just called. The Dem sacrificial lamb won't have to go through a runoff himself.
Right. There's a time and place to excoriate antifa. Well, there already have been and it hasn't happened, but there will be more. This isn't the spot.
That said, here's a bedrock point we have to deal with. They have the right to assemble and march. How we - and I use we for the vast majority of Americans who are rational and explicitly reject these guys - so how do we deal with this right? I happen to think violently engaging them is perhaps the worst fucking thing you can do.
That said, any encounter with nazis means the nazis are at fault because they're nazis. I think you could literally machine gun them down and they'd be blamed because there is no way anyone can defend them in any way. So, perhaps antifa has it right...they can help ramp up the violence without repercussion and makes the nazis look even worse. That's opposite of what I'd do, but the mechanics are logical and probably effective.
I've been mulling over the exact same thing the past couple of days. Violence is not the correct action the protestors should be taking. But then again, they were Nazis/White Supremecists! They were armed, marching, carrying torches, shouting evil, racist shit! What's the right response to that?
The violence part if it fouls up everything. It takes away from the truly repugnant shit the Nazis were chanting Friday night and Saturday morning. It gives those jokes a way to Whataboutism, from the stuff I've seen and read, it doesn't seem like the counterprotesters started the violence but they did participate.
These guys were an armed militia March through Charlottesville and they weren't marching peacefully. I'm all for the right to assemble, but with the open carry laws in Virginia it seemed like they were pushing the boundaries of protected speech.
It seems like some ting that needs a bipartisan commission on what happened.
When armed men are marching the streets in body armor and crashing cars into crowds on people, we're probably past the point of commissions IMO. All approaches should be pursued, but this might be a matter of Neo-Nazis and Clansmen being beaten- literally- until they retreat back into the dark recesses for another fifty years.
Fighting these groups physically will only embolden them. It's a physical fight you will not win. You cannot beat-up Neaderthals and expect any kind of social epiphanies as a result. It just urges like-minded people who are not yet engaged to join. There are countless sleeper cells of idiots waiting to be activated. The various leaders of these groups love the conflict. That's why there are now more rallies scheduled. They count on it for the tribe mentality. "See?! It is us vs them. Look at them attacking your brothers!" Imagine trying to fistfight ISIS or Boko Haram and hoping that they see the light.
Let them sieg heil and get swastika tattoos and believe they are the 'master race' and then let them return to their double-wides and blue collar jobs. Let them break a law, though, you put them under the jail.
I truly believe these groups are indeed being marginalized, hoss. Most of us here have been in positions of leadership. Would any of us hire one? Further, their numbers aren't great. Take the Klan, for example. They have gone from several million to a few thousand members. They advertised and begged people to attend this rally and got a few hundred. The only thing that will save them is for them and their ilk to feel that they are at "war".
"The problem with quotes on the Internet is that it is sometimes hard to verify their authenticity." -Abraham Lincoln
I wouldn't anticipate any social epiphanies from such folks...but if they go home from these rallies missing some teeth, most of them will stop showing up. (Especially when they discover their state turned away the medicare supplement, and they cannot get medical care for their beatings) The Talent Thunderdome Solution.
I suppose we can just let them march around with their torches, shields and rifles for a couple more years (or until Trump resigns) and hope that takes the starch out of them. I don't think that's going to happen though...there are plenty of folks itching for that fight.
I wouldn't anticipate any social epiphanies from such folks...but if they go home from these rallies missing some teeth, most of them will stop showing up. (Especially when they discover their state turned away the medicare supplement, and they cannot get medical care for their beatings) The Talent Thunderdome Solution.
I suppose we can just let them march around with their torches, shields and rifles for a couple more years (or until Trump resigns) and hope that takes the starch out of them. I don't think that's going to happen though...there are plenty of folks itching for that fight.
Nah. They lose teeth, they'll bring guns. The other side will, too. Never underestimate escalatory idiocy.
"The problem with quotes on the Internet is that it is sometimes hard to verify their authenticity." -Abraham Lincoln
Fighting these groups physically will only embolden them. It's a physical fight you will not win. You cannot beat-up Neaderthals and expect any kind of social epiphanies as a result. It just urges like-minded people who are not yet engaged to join. There are countless sleeper cells of idiots waiting to be activated. The various leaders of these groups love the conflict. That's why there are now more rallies scheduled. They count on it for the tribe mentality. "See?! It is us vs them. Look at them attacking your brothers!" Imagine trying to fistfight ISIS or Boko Haram and hoping that they see the light.
Let them sieg heil and get swastika tattoos and believe they are the 'master race' and then let them return to their double-wides and blue collar jobs. Let them break a law, though, you put them under the jail.
I truly believe these groups are indeed being marginalized, hoss. Most of us here have been in positions of leadership. Would any of us hire one? Further, their numbers aren't great. Take the Klan, for example. They have gone from several million to a few thousand members. They advertised and begged people to attend this rally and got a few hundred. The only thing that will save them is for them and their ilk to feel that they are at "war".
We are on the same page. Don't give them the fight they want. Marginalized them and let the world know who they are, but don't give them the fight.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Grammar... The difference between feeling your nuts and feeling you're nuts.
On Saturday hundreds of white nationalists, alt-righters, and neo-Nazis traveled to Charlottesville, Virginia, to participate in the “Unite the Right” rally. By Saturday evening three people were dead – one protester and two police officers – and many more injured. “VICE News Tonight” correspondent Elle Reeve went behind the scenes with white nationalist leaders, including […]
Some scary comments..
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Grammar... The difference between feeling your nuts and feeling you're nuts.
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