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  • Good article Jeff.

    As I've said for years in this forum, the health care system will always under-provide and over-cost as long as health insurance is employer-based and group-oriented. What the Swiss have is all individual policies provided by a market economy. I think a very relevant question about the US system is, then, "how do we get from where we are to something with the characteristics of the Swiss system?"

    This goes back to policy goals in the New Deal and the emphasis on employees as opposed to farmers or small business. Employers were given corporate tax-deductibility of health premiums for workers. Private sector unions encouraged this paradigm because, essentially, it allowed employees to obtain health insurance with before-tax dollars.

    Looked at with today's numbers, self-employed persons pay 15.3% of their income for Social Security and Medicare. Employees pay 7.65%. If the self-employed wish to purchase health insurance on the individual market they must pay using after-tax dollars. Employees generally get health insurance through their employers at little or no cost to them.

    To change, employees would have to pay income tax on the health care premiums that their employers now pay. Let's say that is $ 18,000 for a family. Wages should go up 18k and the employee should buy insurance in the individual market for that amount. When making this move, it would make sense for all persons to pay the 15.3% rate for SS and Medicare, because having multiple rates that favor employees over farmers or small business makes no sense.

    I just don't see that as un-doable in terms of the math. And I think most higher income earners would have no problem paying some more so that the indigent can have insurance.

    The Swiss assume that individuals will make reasonable choices (as indeed they have in actual fact) but the progressives in the US will never, under any circumstances, allow individual choice. It will always come back to the Hillary question, "... But what if they make the wrong choice?" The whole progressive movement of the last 125 years has been about having bureaucratic experts make the "right choices". They would no more allow choice in health insurance than they will allow choice in education. Won't happen. There is a vast bureaucratic swamp "feeding" off the health care delivery system, and these "stakeholders" have a lot to lose if we were to go to the Swiss system.

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    • I was going to link that article, but as it was a Kevin Williamson pieced, I opted not to out of my immense respect for Froot.
      Dan Patrick: What was your reaction to [Urban Meyer being hired]?
      Brady Hoke: You know.....not....good.

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      • Also, all this 'government is broke' stuff reflects a stunning recency bias. Politics has been politics for ages.

        It's possible that "we" have gradually changed our view on government. We've obviously increased it tremendously, and increased power leads to increased opportunities for malfeasance. Perhaps we're seeing a reaction to that. I also think that "our" view of government has fundamentally evolved as many have also come to view government as providing solutions to nearly everything. So, when something isn't right in the world it's the government's fault. And since government sure as fuck isn't the solutions machine, people are going to be very disappointed.

        In any event, it's a message board discussion. Fanciful. How politics plays within the confines of our reality is not.
        Last edited by iam416; June 26, 2017, 07:16 AM.
        Dan Patrick: What was your reaction to [Urban Meyer being hired]?
        Brady Hoke: You know.....not....good.

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        • Brief interruption- The Donald woke up angry today. That is all.

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          • Someone has a bad case of the Mondays?
            Dan Patrick: What was your reaction to [Urban Meyer being hired]?
            Brady Hoke: You know.....not....good.

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            • Its always monday in this White House.

              Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk

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              • He will really have a case of the Mondays if the expected next Comey bomb lands today.

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                • Originally posted by iam416 View Post
                  Also, all this 'government is broke' stuff reflects a stunning recency bias. Politics has been politics for ages. ........ I also think that "our" view of government has fundamentally evolved as many have also come to view government as providing solutions to nearly everything. So, when something isn't right in the world it's the government's fault. And since government sure as fuck isn't the solutions machine, people are going to be very disappointed.

                  In any event, it's a message board discussion. Fanciful. How politics plays within the confines of our reality is not.
                  Agree with most of this. From a historical perspective, at least from my reading of it, politics has changed. I could be wrong here, and I certainly acknowledge the bias of historians who write about such things, but I see fewer long term thinkers among politicians and more short term ones today than in the past, say 100 years ago. My list of game changers above applies.

                  I do think government does have a responsibility to fix some things, not all so, sweeping generalizations don't apply. I consider HC one of them. Some my not. That the US HC system is so incredibly costly and inefficient would lead me to believe that some long term thinking on this from the deciders is needed.
                  Mission to CFB's National Championship accomplished. But the shine on the NC Trophy is embarrassingly wearing off. It's M B-Ball ..... or hockey or volley ball or name your college sport favorite time ...... until next year.

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                  • jeff...

                    our views continue to align more and more... you probably should see someone about that. =)
                    Grammar... The difference between feeling your nuts and feeling you're nuts.

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                    • Technology has moved our gov't closer to a true democracy... it has changed our politicians. I do believe in the past, while there were subjects that divided, there was much more respect for the positions/office, each other and finding a compromise was not considered a weakness (I do think both parties are not interested in electing problem solvers, but rather those who are unwilling to bend). We vote for people who will meet our demands, not lead.

                      That's my perception knowing history is just a glimpse of what happened...
                      Grammar... The difference between feeling your nuts and feeling you're nuts.

                      Comment


                      • I consider HC one of them. Some my not. That the US HC system is so incredibly costly and inefficient would lead me to believe that some long term thinking on this from the deciders is needed.
                        Food for thought -- one the reasons we spend so much money on HC is because we can. We're rich. We can afford trips to the pediatrician to check to make sure a common cold isn't strep. We can afford to keep 88-yr olds alive for another 3 years. We spend because we have the money to spend and consider HC important.

                        Whether the care is being delivered efficiently -- or rather -- efficiently enough -- is an open question. I actually agree with Williamson that ridding ourselves of the employer-based model and going Swiss in that regard is a necessary step. I also agree with the higher deductible/co-pay plans.

                        In any event, I rather strongly disagree that government is going to "fix" HC because it ain't out there. You'll have to decide which set of costs and benefits you're willing to live with. But, make no mistake, there will be costs.
                        Dan Patrick: What was your reaction to [Urban Meyer being hired]?
                        Brady Hoke: You know.....not....good.

                        Comment


                        • From a historical perspective, at least from my reading of it, politics has changed. I could be wrong here, and I certainly acknowledge the bias of historians who write about such things, but I see fewer long term thinkers among politicians and more short term ones today than in the past, say 100 years ago.
                          Yeah, I don't agree. I'm probably wrong, but I really don't agree.
                          Dan Patrick: What was your reaction to [Urban Meyer being hired]?
                          Brady Hoke: You know.....not....good.

                          Comment


                          • As expected, Supreme Court lifts the stay on Trump's travel ban.

                            Read the latest headlines, breaking news, and videos at APNews.com, the definitive source for independent journalism from every corner of the globe.

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                            • Our politics exist in a hyper-partisan, 24-hour, by-the-minute fishbowl in which careers can be undone by a tweet. Its not real conducive to long-term thinking.

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                              • Originally posted by entropy View Post
                                Technology has moved our gov't closer to a true democracy... it has changed our politicians. I do believe in the past, while there were subjects that divided, there was much more respect for the positions/office, each other and finding a compromise was not considered a weakness (I do think both parties are not interested in electing problem solvers, but rather those who are unwilling to bend). We vote for people who will meet our demands, not lead.

                                That's my perception knowing history is just a glimpse of what happened...
                                Our views continue to align more and more...I should probably see a specialist about that.

                                hi!

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