Miscellaneous And Off Topic Subjects

[Jeff Buchanan]

PS ..... ending the guaranteed Federal student loan program might be a good idea.

There's no way the banks would take on the risk of student loans without that. Dry up that pond for a couple of years then re-start it with some different, well thought out rules - like some that might favor the trades - and you'll see a lot of these worthless and costly schools disappear short term, and trade programs flourish.

[iam416]

Heh. Well, I wouldn't do away with it, but I do think reducing available loan dollars is an interesting idea. I suspect it would at least arrest tuition hikes, but I dunno. I rather doubt Universities are operating at bare minimum profit-per-student margin. I strongly suspect they charge what they know students can pay.

[iam416]

How about tuition based on value of the major? Some sort of truly nonsense Liberal Arts degree (say, East Asian Art) is way cheaper than Chemical Engineering? I.e., instead of charging everyone for a Mercedes, charge those who are buying a Pinto for a Pinto.

And then hope the market acts as a restraint against dumbass majors.

[THE_WIZARD_]

crash...if you ever make it to Podunk, Nebraska...I hope someone kills you.

hi!

[hack]

How about tuition based on value of the major? Some sort of truly nonsense Liberal Arts degree (say, East Asian Art) is way cheaper than Chemical Engineering? I.e., instead of charging everyone for a Mercedes, charge those who are buying a Pinto for a Pinto.

And then hope the market acts as a restraint against dumbass majors.

You do pay a premium for any degree that gets you earnings power now. The problem is you don't get a discount for the do-gooder degrees with a ceiling on salaries.

I think it'll get saner when the student-debt bubble pops.

[Da Geezer]

Report on Seth Rich out today:

https://www.scribd.com/document/351805646/The-Profiling-Project-Seth-Rich-Report#from_embed

My only comment is that the group of GWU students must have been getting paid by the word. If they got $ 1 per word they woulld be rich.

[Ghengis Jon]

Good for America.

Go Washington Redskins ......

[crashcourse]

0 towns of Podunk in Nebraska

3 towns of Podunk in Michigan

so I guess I cant be killed in Podunk Nebraska

so 7 years of college--4 prelaw or pre med or pre menstrual whatever it may be

at 25K a semester puts you at 350-400

then you go out and make starters I'd say 150 or so paying off MAYBE 30K a year if your lucky--i'm glad I avoided college
I still say the military is the way to go if you aren't rich

[entropy]

trade schools are undervalued.

[Da Geezer]

How about tuition based on value of the major? Some sort of truly nonsense Liberal Arts degree (say, East Asian Art) is way cheaper than Chemical Engineering? I.e., instead of charging everyone for a Mercedes, charge those who are buying a Pinto for a Pinto.

And then hope the market acts as a restraint against dumbass majors.

I agree with the approach (trying to induce universities to offer fewer degrees in subjects that have little earning power), but I don't know about the method. Ultimately, humans would have to set the prices for majors, and humans have proven to not be very good at setting prices that reflect the market. In fact, price controls have never worked in all of human history, over all societies. eg. Suppose Google finds out that East Asian Studies majors produce graduates that have done a lot of rote memorization, but Google has a use for that type of graduate.

First, I hope we can all agree that if a student chooses to buy a degree with their own money, that is fine at any price. So is buying that degree using borrowed money if the money is repaid. It only becomes our business when we are asked to subsidize college costs either by taxation, or by subsidizing those who do not pay their debts.

Second, since price controls don't work (see The Road to Serfdom by Hayek), I say let the colleges hold at least the primary risk of their students not repaying their student loans. If the student doesn't repay the college has to. Play that out in your mind.
- Nonsense degrees can be expected to produce less income for their holder, which in turn implies less ability to repay. The college has the option of reducing the price of these degrees, or, alternatively, not issuing them.
- If "good name-no income", like the Business Administration degree above mentioned, produce students with $ 150,000 in debt who can only get work in a burger chain, again, you have the college dealing with defaults. This is as it should be, because they sold an inferior product, or they misled the consumer.

Personally, I think colleges (and universities) would continue on with their current MO and would lobby for more funding. But, this plan at least has the benefit of "offloading" $ 1.6 T in potential liability from the tax payer to tax receiver. Also, keep in mind that the whole college system in the US is basically a fixed-cost operation. The marginal cost of adding or subtracting a few students is very near zero (I include room, board, books etc. in costs).

[Da Geezer]

trade schools are undervalued.

Yup. As I said, I've never met a person who doesn't feel this way. How much of this undervaluing has to do with ego do you suppose? What if trade schools were contained under the umbrella of a university, on campus. "Trade school" has the implication to me of a place "off campus" that students transport themselves to daily. I happen to believe that the campus experience is worth something, so what about treating Auto Engine Repair the same as you treat Black Studies, or Mathematics. Again, the most cost effective thing to change is attitudes.

[Ghengis Jon]

There's too much cross-over to say this degree is worthless and this one is not. For instance, it is a psychologist that designs an aircraft instrument panel, not a mechanical or aviation engineer. Under high stress, with adrenaline surging and a distinct likelihood of augering in, where do the eyes look instinctively for information? What information is processed faster, analog displays or digital? How is the reaction time affected when there is an audio overload (people screaming, alarm bells, warning horns)? How is that different from a visual overload (heads up display going haywire)? Picking 'good' degrees vs 'bad' ones depends on how and where you will apply your learning.

[Jeff Buchanan]

.......I still say the military is the way to go if you aren't rich

Correct.

In a relative sense, my parents were well-off when I started applying to colleges in 1965. They would have willingly footed the bill if I had chosen to go to CU or Middleburry in Vermont, both places out of state I applied to and was accepted.

Was hoping for and did not get any scholarship offers from either of those two places and that was a deciding factor. My Dad and his Dad and most of his brothers were M grads. I'd been accepted to M and at the time, tuition was around $500/semester in state. East Quad and a meal plan ran another $500 or there abouts. Kind-of a no brainer for me.

My Dad, a Navy vet, encouraged me to enroll in NROTC and I did. One of the smartest things I ever did. In years 3 and 4, my tuition was paid in full by the Navy. In my Senior year, I applied for and was accepted to flight training and the Navy paid for my Private pilot's lesson my senior year at M.

I had a job waiting for me when I graduated as a 2nd Lt, USMC - not reserve. I went straight to flight school. 3y later I was flying A6s and deployed to the Phillipines in 1973. Throughout my flying career, I made good money and got two big incentive bonuses to stay on active duty at my 6th and 10th years of service.

In my last two years of a 20y career, I got my Commercial Instrument rating and Twin Engine rating all at the expense of the VA. When I left active duty in 1990, I got a 737 Type rating and Associates degree in math and Science from a community college, all from the VA. I never paid a cent out of my pocket for any of this.

I was 42 when I retired and started drawing full retirement pay as an 05. While not at the expense of the VA I got a full ride and a monthly stipend from the National Health Service Corps to attend Emory University's Physician Assistant Program, graduating from that as a PA in 1998. Acceptance into both those programs had a lot to do with my age (adult learner) and my background in the USMC. Having an M undergraduate degree helped a lot too. I had 3y of pay-back service to the NHSC that I did in the Georgia State Prison system.

I have told every young person interested in becoming a PA whom I've mentored over the years to join the military and get training that way. PA school, 28 months of it for a Masters in Science, is topping out at $100k. I had zero debt when I graduated, a steady pay-check and when I left the prison health care system somewhere in 2005, I had more job offers than anyone could possibly need. Had my pick of working circumstances. Rare today in any field. I chose Emergency Medicine with the M degree, Emory PA degree and military background playing a huge role in the ease by which I got my first "real" job..... and I've never worried about health insurance. I had Tricare when on active duty and until I reached 65. Then I started medicare with Tricare for Life serving as my secondary.

So, yeah, while the military isn't right for everyone, it makes a ton of sense for many, one of the biggest getting a great education on the VA and lots of good paying career opportunities both within the military (Pilot, Law, Medicine, Pharmacy and a lot more) and after it.

I have several friends who went the enlisted route. All of them are at least E8s, some did their initial contracts or a few years past that then went reserve. At 62, they started drawing full retirement. All of them got training either within the Army/Navy/USAF/National Guard or after it at the expense of the VA. Several of these friends are Jet Engine, Electrician or Airframes/Hydraulics mechanics working for the airlines or other flying related businesses - and there are lots of them.

Don't quote me but these guys are probably pulling down in excess of $100K annually doing at least $60+ per hour, trade type work. There is no benefit or advancement opportunity comparison to any job save maybe Federal or State Government Service but the military's VA educational benefits are way better.

I was one lucky SOB and remain so today.

[hack]

Trades on campus? Great. It'll be an opportunity to read Hayek's other, lesser-read works, like the Treatise on Gaskets.

[hack]

I still say the military is the way to go if you aren't rich

Looking for a handout there, aren't you?