Miscellaneous And Off Topic Subjects

[Da Geezer]

I don't read typically read Geezer's posts. They seem to almost always lead into the weeds of a topic I have almost no interest in. And there's a entire team of folks ready to jump on whatever he posts and take us into those weeds.

Please note that I didn't take the bait that DSL posted about Susan Rice. Not worth going into the weeds when the whole preposterous idea of Putin colluding with Trump is proven to be a sham. Trump has already been more hostile toward Russia than Obama ever was.

[Da Geezer]

Hoss: Why do you figure that evangelicals voted about 80% for Trump. They favored a thrice-married millionaire playboy, now married to a model who posed nude in a popular magazine? Social issues? Really?

I say again, Trump's election was about economics. It was also because ordinary folks saw what was about to happen to the SC if Hillary got elected. The Republicans bet the farm on November 8 in terms of holding the Senate, winning the White House, and, to a lesser extent, maintaining the House.

I remember the glee you progs showed all last summer debating what would remain of the Republican Party. You simply cannot understand that middle and lower class voters showed up in droves and voted their economic self-interest. And if the Dems keep ignoring the working class, they'll be headed toward another defeat in 2018, at least in the Senate.

The primary reason Trump won in the B10 states is that those states have elected governors who have provided good governance. Today, Gov. Walker signed a bill that eliminated the requirement of using union labor on state funded projects. This kind of thing is happening throughout the Rust Belt (except for IL). The interesting thing to me is that the Dems don't even consider good governance at the state and local level as a plus for the national GOP.

[SeattleLionsFan]

And I'd also argue post election, dems have avoided any olive branches to that group of voters. I'd say they've basically told them they are not welcome.

If you feel there is evidence otherwise directed at that group of voters, happy to listen.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Ent,
Tell me more about what you mean by this? What do you think Dems should have been saying to these voters and what do you think they were saying instead?

To my ears, this all sounds like white folks being upset that someone else's problems were taking precedence for once. Which I understand, but just want to be intellectually honest about.

[froot loops]

Hoss: Why do you figure that evangelicals voted about 80% for Trump. They favored a thrice-married millionaire playboy, now married to a model who posed nude in a popular magazine? Social issues? Really?

I say again, Trump's election was about economics. It was also because ordinary folks saw what was about to happen to the SC if Hillary got elected. The Republicans bet the farm on November 8 in terms of holding the Senate, winning the White House, and, to a lesser extent, maintaining the House.

I remember the glee you progs showed all last summer debating what would remain of the Republican Party. You simply cannot understand that middle and lower class voters showed up in droves and voted their economic self-interest. And if the Dems keep ignoring the working class, they'll be headed toward another defeat in 2018, at least in the Senate.

The primary reason Trump won in the B10 states is that those states have elected governors who have provided good governance. Today, Gov. Walker signed a bill that eliminated the requirement of using union labor on state funded projects. This kind of thing is happening throughout the Rust Belt (except for IL). The interesting thing to me is that the Dems don't even consider good governance at the state and local level as a plus for the national GOP.

You forgot another factor, Trump was the leader of the Birther movement. As your speaker post a few pages back, the Birther movement was very important to evangelicals.

[entropy]

Miscellaneous And Off Topic Subjects

Ent,

Tell me more about what you mean by this? What do you think Dems should have been saying to these voters and what do you think they were saying instead?



To my ears, this all sounds like white folks being upset that someone else's problems were taking precedence for once. Which I understand, but just want to be intellectually honest about.

I wouldn't say all white folks, but specifically lower skilled white folk and even skilled blue collar white folk. I grew up with that being one of the core groups voting for dems. I believe that group no longer feels anyone is fighting for them or talking to them. I'm not saying it's right or wrong.... it's not about judging... just it changed.

Trump did talk to them, but R's do not.. in general. so their vote, imo, is up in the air next election.

I don't think the D's are trying to win them back either, btw..





Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[SeattleLionsFan]

I guess that's part of what I mean? Do you mean that Dems are physically not talking to them, or they aren't speaking to their issues? If it's the latter, what are the issues you think Dems should be speaking to, but they aren't?

[entropy]

I guess that's part of what I mean? Do you mean that Dems are physically not talking to them, or they aren't speaking to their issues? If it's the latter, what are the issues you think Dems should be speaking to, but they aren't?

I think people develop a sense for what candidates are focused on and what they are or have said on an issue... if you believe corporations took your job out of country, illegals are taking jobs that are left and you want help getting them back (and protecting the jobs that are still there..), I think it's clear where the Dems have alienated that group recently.

They haven't recovered like other areas of the country and Dems have recently supported what they blame. Just my thoughts...


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[KidD]

I think, at least how I read it, what he's saying is that the Dems are so focused on the different minority groups and really speaking to them and their issues that the working white man's issues/grievances/concerns/whathaveyou are no longer being addressed by the party. They probably feel disenfranchised at the very least. At least that's my take on it.

Sent from my VS987 using Tapatalk

[SeattleLionsFan]

That makes sense. You might be right about that. In my view though, there are two problems with that viewpoint. 1) the issues facing them are no more important than the issues facing other people and to expect otherwise is the ultimate in privilege. 2) the bogeymen they have identified are completely unfounded and no amount of explanation would correct that misunderstanding.

If the decision is between needlessly demonizing people based on race and national origin and losing elections, i'd rather lose elections.

[KidD]

I think (not being an unskilled worker, though white) it's not that they feel that their issues are more important, but that their issues have merit and are being completely ignored.

Sent from my VS987 using Tapatalk

[entropy]

Agree with KidD


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Dr. Strangelove]

That Armada that Trump sent to Korea as a show of force after Pyongyang's missile test? It never actually went there. White House blames the Pentagon for the 'miscommunication'. The carrier group is scheduled (and has been scheduled for a while) to to South Korea at the end of the month

http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2017/04/18/524560773/that-armada-heading-to-north-korea-actually-it-sailed-south

[entropy]

Miscellaneous And Off Topic Subjects

Also.. it's not about validity from our perspective. It's about validity from theirs...

As for demonizing.. I'm not sure where I said that... not my point


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[SeattleLionsFan]

What issues have merit and are being ignored though? 1)job training/education was discussed, 2) increasing wages was discussed, 3) healthcare needs were discussed, 4) childcare issues were discussed 4) improving safety of the encore and workplace were discussed. What wasn't discussed was how coal is king and everyone is going to be making 100k a year digging coal. Because that is not ever going to happen.

[CGVT]

What issues have merit and are being ignored though? 1)job training/education was discussed, 2) increasing wages was discussed, 3) healthcare needs were discussed, 4) childcare issues were discussed 4) improving safety of the encore and workplace were discussed. What wasn't discussed was how coal is king and everyone is going to be making 100k a year digging coal. Because that is not ever going to happen.

This. ^^^^ High paying, low skill jobs are not coming back no matter what any politician says.